22:33 < cubexyz> we ran different OSes on 286 22:33 < cubexyz> Venix and Xenix mainly 22:34 < cubexyz> there was also CP/M-86 22:35 < cubexyz> and Coherent, although I didn't try that one on 286, there was a version for it 22:46 < cubexyz> 1 meg 286's were pretty common 22:49 < cubexyz> 286's had the 16-bit protected mode which wasn't used by msdos 22:51 < cubexyz> even back then there were some choices for 286 22:57 < cubexyz> easier that way though 22:57 < cubexyz> the early 1990s were the last gasp of 286's 23:42 < cubexyz> the bad old days :) 01:53 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/gahnoo-plus-linux.jpg 02:00 < cubexyz> I don't really like udev either 02:02 < cubexyz> udev got integrated into systemd 02:03 < cubexyz> so the slackware people made eudev 02:03 < cubexyz> actually I don't know if they made it... 02:03 < cubexyz> they used it anyways 02:05 < cubexyz> yes, I think that's right 02:07 < cubexyz> I got used to the pre-udev way but I'm adapting 02:08 < cubexyz> I guess the general idea is good: userspace /dev 02:16 < cubexyz> I liked the old SCL system...scanner control language 02:17 < cubexyz> fopen /dev/usb/scanner0 and off you go 02:17 < cubexyz> pretty straightforward 02:18 < cubexyz> but I'm going to relook at xscanimage and see how it's done nowadays 02:27 < cubexyz> of course I can just open /dev/sg0 on the old scsi scanner 04:42 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: Fedora Core 2 patched by you ! 04:51 < cubexyz> no, it wasn't Fedora Core 2 :) 04:51 < cubexyz> Fedora Core 1 it was 04:51 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: oh yeah its 1 not 2 04:52 < cubexyz> maybe 04:53 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: I made 04:56 < cubexyz> does the laptop have a cdrom? 04:56 < cubexyz> because it sounds like the install isn't right 04:57 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: there is no install of Linux on here again yet 04:57 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: I burnt them using windows 04:59 < cubexyz> well, I would check the integrity of the ISO image first 05:00 < cubexyz> and there was some recent ubuntu problem with UEFI 05:01 < cubexyz> I think that was Ubuntu 17.10 though 05:02 < cubexyz> check the bios anyways, make sure it's working right 05:03 < cubexyz> check the boot order... 05:04 < cubexyz> also I believe ubuntu has a dedicated boot repair disc 05:04 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: looks like I may have to use another burn tool, unetbootin apparnatly doesn't even support uefi, but refus should work 05:05 < cubexyz> if it's not uncompressing the kernel you know it's borked 05:05 < cubexyz> which bios does it have? 05:07 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: apparnatly unetbootin doesn't adctsaully support uefi 05:08 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: I need to try refus 05:18 < cubexyz> sebsebsebb, some BIOS/UEFI versions are a bit linux hostile 05:18 < cubexyz> I know some people told me they needed to use legacy boot, or enable specific devices such as USB devices 05:18 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: apparnatly unetbootin dones't support uefi 05:19 < cubexyz> yes, but there is also legacy boot or CSM 05:19 < cubexyz> if you're UEFI has that, you could turn it on 05:19 < cubexyz> ah 05:19 < cubexyz> yes 05:20 < cubexyz> I wonder if coreboot would boot win10 :) 05:21 < cubexyz> well... I figured you'd never touch coreboot :) 05:21 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: I am a bit hmm to if I really want to put windows 10 back on the gpd pocket or not 05:23 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: by the eway are you protcted from spectre and the other thing in your fedora core 1 h eh 05:24 < cubexyz> I don't think the CPU on the FC1 Box does speculative execution so it should be OK as far as spectre goes 05:25 < cubexyz> meltdown, I don't know 05:25 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: I don't feel that secure right now, since running the rubbish os /:d 05:25 < cubexyz> a rogue process would have to get on the computer first... 05:26 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: ok no razielle here to maybe try and c rack me h eh 05:26 < cubexyz> so I'm not that worried 05:26 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: but maybe soeone malicous from #ubuntu saw my ip h eh 05:27 < cubexyz> I've spent the last 14 years securing FC1 so I'm confident :) 05:28 < sebsebsebb> cubexyz: Microsoft have spent the last whatever years, securing windows a bit, and it's still rather insecure 05:28 < cubexyz> the thing is windows will never be secure... 05:28 < cubexyz> you got no control 05:29 < cubexyz> downloading gigs of who-knows-what whenever it wants 05:29 < cubexyz> ridiculous 05:29 < cubexyz> people pay me to take it off their computers 05:30 < cubexyz> oiaohm, let me guess.... Brisbane? 05:31 < oiaohm> cubexyz: right state for where I am I am watching Sidney. 05:31 < cubexyz> we had a -40C day recently 05:31 < cubexyz> oldest day I can remember 05:32 < cubexyz> humidity.... :) 05:33 < cubexyz> coldest day rather 05:35 < cubexyz> I heard that some computers you can't even hit a key to get into UEFI menu 05:35 < cubexyz> MinceR's worry that computers are getting locked down is becoming true 05:37 < cubexyz> assuming your computer has windows preloaded, you have to boot windows to change the UEFI settings 05:40 < cubexyz> sebsebsebb, not for a while 05:40 < cubexyz> not since the holidays I think 05:41 < oiaohm> cubexyz: true because some EFI don't fire up the keyboard so you have either pull harddrive or boot into OS and reboot back to firmware. 07:29 < cubexyz> honestly I never had a problem with FC1's init 07:30 < cubexyz> then you make your own distro :) 07:32 < cubexyz> google's working on Fuchsia 07:32 < cubexyz> it's a RTOS 07:33 < cubexyz> I don't know, maybe a RTOS is good 07:34 < cubexyz> everyone isn't going to switch to Plan 9 07:36 < cubexyz> I wouldn't say Linux always supports 486 07:36 < cubexyz> very much not the case 07:36 < oiaohm> cubexyz: a group did a tested with gentoo recently it still works. 07:37 < cubexyz> with how much ram? 07:37 < oiaohm> cubexyz: 64 megs 07:37 < cubexyz> haha sure 07:38 < cubexyz> how many 486's mobo's even supported 64 megs I wonder 07:38 < cubexyz> you want BL3 for a 486 07:38 < cubexyz> but that's retrocomputing specialists only 07:39 < cubexyz> don't even bother with anything modern 07:39 < cubexyz> not on 486 07:39 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qSziR6sD8Q amd 486 clone is that video. 07:40 < cubexyz> for masochists :) 07:40 < oiaohm> cubexyz: 64megs of ram is a standard 486/386 motherboard maxed out. 07:40 < cubexyz> I did it with 16 megs 07:40 < cubexyz> ok, maybe my 486 board could do it with the right ram, I never tried 07:41 < cubexyz> if I was going to try something like that I would do PDP-11 on a FPGA 07:41 < oiaohm> cubexyz: getting the ram would be the problem. 07:41 < oiaohm> cubexyz: 4x16 meg sticks of that ram type is hard to get. 07:42 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/linux-486.jpg 07:43 < oiaohm> cubexyz: please note that 486 one was running unmodified current day gentoo other than building for 486. 07:43 < cubexyz> well there was less bloat 07:43 < oiaohm> cubexyz: but I was kind of shocked that 64 megs is in fact enough to turn over a modern Linux distribution admititly slowly. 07:43 < cubexyz> would 486 be safe from meltdown and spectre? :) 07:44 < cubexyz> and no UEFI to worry about 07:45 < cubexyz> my 486 didn't even have an ethernet card, I used PLIP 07:47 < cubexyz> BL3 was slack derived... another reason why slack is awesome 07:48 < cubexyz> but like MinceR said years ago... very slow for anything related to encryption 07:48 < cubexyz> you would have a lot of trouble browsing the modern web 07:50 < cubexyz> is this site lynx friendly? he asked 07:54 < cubexyz> broadband on a 486 would probably not be too great either 07:54 < cubexyz> I think I was getting around 32K per sec on PLIP 07:55 < oiaohm> cubexyz: depends on how bad your broadband is. I know a 486 could keep up with some of the worst ADSL out there. 07:55 < cubexyz> the parallel port could only do about 30K/s 07:56 < cubexyz> maybe with an ethernet card it wouldn't be too bad 07:56 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I have seen ADSL connections that work that are only doing 16Kilobit per second. So good dialup moden connection faster. 07:58 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so broadband from hell 486 would be suitable. Decent broadband would not be. 08:05 < cubexyz> what did Voyager 1 use for it's computer? 08:07 < cubexyz> custom built says wikipedia 08:08 < oiaohm> cubexyz: in the most horrible sense of the word. 08:09 < cubexyz> I'm impressed it still works at all 08:13 < oiaohm> cubexyz: http://www.cpushack.com/space-craft-cpu.html sorry I was thinking wrong ones . Pioneer 10 and 11 and Viking are a stack of TTL chips. 08:14 < cubexyz> GE 18-bit TTL 08:16 < cubexyz> anything that works for over 40 years is pretty good 08:17 < cubexyz> the early PDPs were also 18 bit 08:17 < cubexyz> I never understood why though 08:18 < cubexyz> I think maybe because of the 6-bit character set? 08:22 < cubexyz> IBM did things in 8-bit multiples as EBCDIC was 8-bit 08:23 < cubexyz> but exactly why 18-bit.... not sure 08:25 < cubexyz> I guess it's got to be the old 6-bit character set 14:22 < cubexyz> wow 14:22 < cubexyz> I must ask C or F 14:23 < cubexyz> 2 degrees fahrenheit would be very cold 14:25 < cubexyz> you did the right thing 14:25 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: The wind is blowing so fast that Lake Michigan is crashing up over the wall onto Lake hore Drive and into traffic. 14:27 < cubexyz> -16 C with wind would be very unpleasant 14:28 < cubexyz> ugh 14:29 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: I can't complain, really. 01:01 < cubexyz> railway empire will be released soon for Linux 01:01 < cubexyz> jan 26th, 2018 03:13 < cubexyz> I've been considering the time I used my various earlier computers 03:13 < cubexyz> vic-20: 1982-1985 03:14 < cubexyz> c64: 1985-1989 (a similar interval) 03:14 < cubexyz> 286: 1986-1990 03:14 < cubexyz> then a series of 386s, a 486, a pentium, etc 03:15 < cubexyz> but the P3 server built in 1998? Still in use 03:15 < cubexyz> oh yeah, the amiga 500 was 1987-1992 or so 03:17 < cubexyz> I guess the 5 year corporate cycle has some logical to it 03:18 < cubexyz> I used the c64 a bit longer than 1989... but that was when I stopped programming on it 03:24 < cubexyz> a bit of a pity I didn't immediately put redhat 5.2 on the server back when I first built it 03:26 < cubexyz> now the monitor itself.... that probably wouldn't last 20 years 03:27 < cubexyz> my oldest LCD is 2003... so it would have to last to 2023 to make 20 03:29 < cubexyz> and printers... ugh.... I got a giant stack of broken ones 03:51 < cubexyz> hey 03:52 < cubexyz> did you get your laptop working? 04:07 < sebsebseb> cubexyz: no 04:07 < sebsebseb> cubexyz: still issues, but got omething to see if i can disable in bios that may help, plus there's a kernel paramater or two i could try 06:59 < sebsebseb> cubexyz: around? 08:20 < cubexyz> I am now 23:27 < cubexyz> what browsers are people using for java applets these days? 23:27 < cubexyz> seems like nothing works with those now 00:13 < oiaohm> cubexyz: firefox I know because you still have to use java applets for auskey. 00:14 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://java.com/en/download/help/firefox_java.xml << and only particular versions of firefox 00:17 < cubexyz> seems people are using something called 'canvas' now 00:17 < cubexyz> or html5 00:25 < cubexyz> I heard the Intel CEO dumped all his stock 00:27 < cubexyz> well, a big chunk, not all 00:30 < cubexyz> should have bought some intel stock in 1985 for $0.59 a share 02:23 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: All but the 200,000 shares he has to have to be the CEO, under the corporate bylaws. 13:29 < cubexyz> what no sysvinit-vim daemon? 13:29 < cubexyz> how disappointing 14:21 < cubexyz> you could run BL3 (Basic Linux 3) on a 486 14:21 < cubexyz> with 16 megs of ram... which is how much the old IBM 4341 had in 1986 14:21 < cubexyz> I thought it was tons of ram at the time 15:21 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the days before the internet and no one was dreaming how much of a resource hog a browser could be. 13:35 < cubexyz> what's the difference? 13:35 < XRevan86> cubexyz: In Russian the word "radiation" is solely used to describe the ionising radiation 13:35 < cubexyz> ah 14:32 < cubexyz> how to install win10 on tuxmachines? 14:52 < cubexyz> yeah, my advice now is just avoid wintel 09:07 < cubexyz> most people probably mean "breakfast cereal" when talking about cereal 09:07 < oiaohm> cubexyz: or a lose of meaning as breakfast cereal 09:07 < cubexyz> kind of like when XRevan86 was complaining about the word "radiation", cereal is a broad term 09:09 < cubexyz> actually that makes me think about "wheat belly" 09:10 < cubexyz> and when it became a problem 09:10 < oiaohm> cubexyz: not quite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereal Cereal as a word alone is exact term. When its used in combination with bar, breakfast... it turns to only have to contain something cereal not be made of it totally. 09:11 < XRevan86> cubexyz: What's wheat belly? 09:11 < cubexyz> well, yeah not if you're a botantist 09:11 < cubexyz> just talking average person 09:12 < cubexyz> I remember long arguments about what "PC" meant 09:12 < cubexyz> my view was that a PC was a personal computer, not just an IBM PC 09:13 < cubexyz> this was in the classiccomputing channel 09:13 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I thought you meant Personal Computer vs. Political Correctness 09:14 < oiaohm> cubexyz: ParaCombinatorics has meaning really classic computer terms as in the first programs done by Ada lovelace. 09:14 < cubexyz> no, I was talking about the MITS Altair 8800 :) 09:14 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so its how far classical. 09:15 < cubexyz> if you check ads in magazines from 1976 onwards they used the term PC before the IBM PC ever existed 09:17 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800 the first computer to have the PC title. 09:18 < cubexyz> it wasn't a very good computer really 09:21 < cubexyz> I remember Computerland selling the Commodore PET in the late 1970s 09:21 < cubexyz> so there was a "Personal Computer" industry before the IBM PC 09:22 < cubexyz> Radio Shack had the TRS-80 Model 1 :) 09:24 < cubexyz> Apple II might have even been a few months before that 09:25 < cubexyz> and rich people could have bought an IBM 5100 09:55 < cubexyz> old, maybe you've seen this before: 09:55 < cubexyz> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/19/apple-lobbying-against-fair-care-act.html 09:57 < cubexyz> in Canada we had Bill C-273 09:57 < cubexyz> didn't become law though 15:11 < cubexyz> damn 15:12 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I got the same email 15:13 < XRevan86> cubexyz: You mentioned you got the previous one 15:13 < cubexyz> yes 15:15 < cubexyz> he was a bit idiosyncratic but interesting to talk to 15:18 < cubexyz> pretty sure this Ralph Schoenman is the same guy mentioned in wikipedia 15:19 < cubexyz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Schoenman 15:21 < XRevan86> cubexyz: That's a cool surname, BTW 15:23 < cubexyz> I remember _msb_ didn't like using gmail for some reason 15:24 < XRevan86> cubexyz: But he actually did use Google actively 15:26 < cubexyz> I'll have to check the logs 15:26 < cubexyz> I think comcast was blocking some emails.... maybe it wasn't gmail 15:58 < cubexyz> what is the java plugin called these days? 16:01 < cubexyz> bah, the damned thing is 32-bit only 16:01 < cubexyz> maybe konqueror will do it 16:10 < XRevan86> cubexyz: icedtea? 10:35 < cubexyz> well using firefox ESR 52.X didn't enable the java applets 10:35 < cubexyz> bit of a pain 10:36 < cubexyz> what should I use instead? 10:39 < cubexyz> it's the old rubik.class java applet... I just wanted to get it working again 10:39 < cubexyz> no luck so far, not even on old vector 10:57 < cubexyz> yeah according to my notes the last time I had java applets woring was in firefox 3.6.20 10:58 < cubexyz> around 2012 :-/ 10:58 < cubexyz> s/woring/working/ 11:03 < cubexyz> rubik.class is really old... doesn't work with any appletviewer I have 11:04 < cubexyz> it did work in the past though 11:08 < cubexyz> ha, ok... got it working 11:09 < cubexyz> I've forgotten a lot 11:11 < cubexyz> well really all the 3d rubik stuff wasn't that great on a 2d screen 11:12 < cubexyz> anyways, appletviewer from jdk1.8.0_51 worked _outside_ of the browser 11:14 < cubexyz> and it's a bit perverse in other ways... 11:15 < cubexyz> it seems no one wants to support java 11:15 < cubexyz> I remember some really neat VRML stuff but that disappeared too 11:27 < cubexyz> ok, got firefox 16.0.2 working with java... 11:31 < cubexyz> the old plugin got blocked by firefox back in aug 2012, which explains why everything stopped working back then 11:34 < cubexyz> haha 11:39 < cubexyz> I think Firefox 51 ESR 64-bit will support the NPAPI plugin 11:39 < cubexyz> if I really wanted to do that 11:42 < cubexyz> 52 won't work 11:42 < cubexyz> well, it must be 32-bit only 13:06 < cubexyz> not to mention Thompson and Ritchie... Stallman did pattern GNU after Unix 13:06 < cubexyz> it was the template at least 13:08 < cubexyz> Thompson isn't a M$ fan 13:08 < cubexyz> at least, that what he said in an interview 13:10 < cubexyz> MinceR and I are staunch anti-systemders :) 13:11 < cubexyz> de icaza :-/ 13:12 < cubexyz> macOS is no way to go... closed source? no thanks 13:13 < cubexyz> apple stuff is for posers :) 13:14 < cubexyz> unless you use the original Apple II 13:16 < cubexyz> you could fix an Apple II 13:19 < cubexyz> does Miguel "love" windows 10 also? 13:19 < cubexyz> that would be hard to imagine even for him 13:19 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Is Windows 10 worse than macOS? %) 13:19 < cubexyz> XRevan86, could be... both are bad of course 13:20 < cubexyz> I know win10 continually downloads gigs and gigs of updates you have little if no control over 13:24 < cubexyz> does apple even replace batteries in their devices? 13:25 < cubexyz> at least with the old thinkpads replacing the battery was easy 13:26 < cubexyz> oh right, you have to send your macbook to apple for them to replace the battery 13:27 < cubexyz> it's a bit of a pain replacing the battery in chromebooks too 13:27 < cubexyz> at least with the one I have 13:31 < cubexyz> we used to use CVS 13:35 < cubexyz> GNU even had a SCCS conversion thing 13:35 < cubexyz> probably extinction now 10:34 < cubexyz> well the 9/11 stuff was a bit hard to take 13:43 < cubexyz> really linux and the userspace has been morphing a lot 13:44 < cubexyz> I've dealt with that by freezing certain computers into different eras 14:14 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I sorry to say that http://abc.net.au is quite an abomination 14:14 < cubexyz> broken or missing links galore and obfuscated URLs for radio streaming 14:29 < cubexyz> for australian radio streaming check out: 14:30 < cubexyz> http://fmstream.org/index.php?s=australia 18:25 < cubexyz> https://hackaday.com/2017/12/26/a-visit-from-saint-rich/ 18:28 < cubexyz> Yule plus Christmas, lol 18:50 < cubexyz> not sure what that 2nd animal is 18:56 < cubexyz> yes, probably is 18:57 < cubexyz> looks like a garage of some sort 19:10 < cubexyz> sure he is 19:10 < cubexyz> he's got thousands of lawsuits against him... 19:24 < cubexyz> there really isn't AI 19:24 < cubexyz> at least there's narrow AI 19:24 < cubexyz> at best rather 19:28 < cubexyz> what really gathers information? the human mind 19:28 < cubexyz> the computer merely aggregates or shifts through it 19:30 < cubexyz> s/shifts/sifts/ 19:32 < cubexyz> alphazero was interesting though 20:01 < oiaohm> cubexyz: question where is that AI on MS office running. 20:01 < oiaohm> cubexyz: is it another way to collect data back to servers 20:09 < cubexyz> I would be very suspicious of any M$ "AI" 20:12 < cubexyz> cloud-based AI.... brrrrrr 20:13 < cubexyz> just another buzz word 20:22 < oiaohm> cubexyz: buzz word can be a good item to hide a intelgence collecting feature. 20:25 < cubexyz> sure, and it would be very foolish to trust such an AI, especially since its closed source 20:25 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Online-services/Voice-authentication/ << now this is why in Australia someone collecting your voice samples kind of be a problem. 20:26 < cubexyz> I had some ideas about IRDA control, but I never finished them 20:27 < cubexyz> so rather than voice control, I could repurpose an old TV remote to operate a computer with IRDA capability 12:21 < cubexyz> bahaha 12:21 < cubexyz> ok, first of all, there is no AI 12:21 < cubexyz> there's no real AI 12:21 < cubexyz> expert domains... narrow AI, yes 12:22 < cubexyz> general AI... no way 12:22 < cubexyz> so this talk of AI "replacing the Linux desktop" is laughable 12:22 < cubexyz> AI doesn't write device drivers... 12:25 < cubexyz> I remember hearing all this big talk on how awesome 4GL's and AI will be in the 1980s 12:25 < cubexyz> and back in the 1950s there were all sorts of sci-fi stories about AI's with general intelligence 12:26 < cubexyz> watson was a fancy text processor... which read wikipedia 12:26 < schestowitz> cubexyz: it's a Microsoft man 12:26 < cubexyz> so who wrote wikipedia? humans did, not watson 12:26 < cubexyz> watson has the understanding of a peanut 12:27 < cubexyz> yeah 12:27 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://ts.data61.csiro.au/projects/TS/drivers/synthesis/intel_proposal.pdf AI and device driver writing I would not exactly rule out. 12:27 < cubexyz> ok, that might be a bit harsh, but ok :) 12:27 < oiaohm> cubexyz: mostly AI that attempts to read the hardware documentation to feed information into synthesis. 12:28 < cubexyz> a human could write the driver without documentation, think about that 12:29 < cubexyz> since that's happened many times 12:29 < oiaohm> cubexyz: and its not that the process of black boxing can not be automated a heck of a lot either. 12:30 < cubexyz> obfuscation, sure 12:30 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so it may be possible to make a expert system for making drivers. 12:30 < cubexyz> I burned up a lot of time studying HP's obfuscated scanner protocols, which used to be completely understandable 12:32 < cubexyz> I'm all ears for any real examples :) 12:32 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I have sent attempt with synthesis to attempt to extract information silicon level. 12:33 < oiaohm> cubexyz: not sent/ seen 12:33 < oiaohm> cubexyz: lets just say the AI proved it was a idiot. 12:34 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so I put AI writing drivers in the maybe pile that one day someone might make it work. Current attempts you cannot call successufl 12:36 < cubexyz> one thing people missed (and I thought it was really big) is that properly documented protocols make trying drivers easy 12:36 < cubexyz> so PCL, SCL, etc makes it easy to talk to your printer or scanner 12:37 < cubexyz> and it's never directly stated... "this device uses ABC protocol" 12:37 < cubexyz> s/trying/writing/ 12:40 < cubexyz> real AGI is the more modern term for artificial generalized intelligence 12:43 < cubexyz> more specifically, real AGI would equal or exceed the real time cognitive abilities of an average well-educated human 13:32 < cubexyz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdapfel 13:39 < cubexyz> I guess it's time to stop using intel CPUs 13:39 < schestowitz> cubexyz: yup 13:47 < cubexyz> I used to sell AMD CPUs 13:50 < cubexyz> even sold a few Cyrix ones 13:54 < cubexyz> some of those old AMDs overheated though 14:09 < cubexyz> there should be some competence test for public office 14:12 < cubexyz> doctors, lawyers, teachers, pilots... all have to pass all their tests 14:12 < cubexyz> I think even US mail carriers have to take a civil service test 20:00 < cubexyz> ha 20:01 < cubexyz> you really can't expect any coherent answers about BIOS from Dell, HP or Lenovo 20:01 < cubexyz> they don't do the BIOS work 20:17 < cubexyz> also Dell has a win-only bios update method 20:18 < cubexyz> there should be an UEFI method that works natively though 20:20 < cubexyz> I'm not too inclined to use it though... I'm pre-UEFI 20:21 < cubexyz> the really old method I used was pop the bios chip out... reprogram it.... stick it back in 20:25 < cubexyz> I asked Dell for BIOS source code once... they ignored me :) 21:22 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: They all use Insyde BIOS iirc. 21:23 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Dell has a Linux-based BIOS update mechanism. 14:31 < cubexyz> united states of canada? 14:35 < cubexyz> yeah red = liberal, blue = conservative (in Canada) 14:36 < cubexyz> I don't recommend anyone watching the "Dukes of Hazzard" though :) 14:42 < cubexyz> oversimplification is a problem too 14:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Reduction to a stereotype, yeah. 14:45 < cubexyz> who decides this stuff? :) 14:45 < XRevan86> cubexyz: History. 14:46 < cubexyz> in addition to red and blue in canada there is also orange for NDP and green for the greens 14:47 < cubexyz> but the US republican party uses red... 14:47 < cubexyz> I think the republicans are roughly analogous to the canadian conservatives 14:48 < cubexyz> I think the red/blue thing might be from Great Britain actually 14:49 < cubexyz> and Canada adopted it 14:49 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Red is the colour of political change since the French revolution 14:49 < cubexyz> and in the 1976 US election red was democratic (to make it even more confusing) 14:49 < XRevan86> cubexyz: That could be where the UK got it 14:50 < cubexyz> XRevan86, possible 14:51 < cubexyz> so originally yes, democratics used red... and that got switched in the 2000 election for some reason 14:52 < cubexyz> Canada also had a historical oddity... the technocratic party 14:52 < cubexyz> it didn't last very long 14:53 < cubexyz> there was even a map called the "North American Technate" 14:54 < cubexyz> hmmm 14:57 < cubexyz> I'd say we are moving towards a corporatocracy actually 14:57 < cubexyz> everything bends to the will of big corporations... 14:58 < cubexyz> right, I'd say that's pretty much the current situation 14:59 < cubexyz> if the corporation wants everyone to have motherboards with secure boot, that's what happens 14:59 < cubexyz> "the people" have very little power to change that 15:06 < cubexyz> I don't recall asking for planned obsolescence :) 15:08 < XRevan86> cubexyz: No one did 15:09 < cubexyz> pentalobe screws? come on... 15:09 < cubexyz> Apple must be the worst 16:32 < cubexyz> but _we_ all use metric :) 16:33 < cubexyz> except for burma, liberia and the USA 16:35 < cubexyz> yeah, now they do 16:36 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Naturally, historically that's not the case because the Imperial units are simply older :) 16:37 < cubexyz> and they still don't use metric for people's height or weight a lot of the time 16:37 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Which makes a lot of videos on the Internet confusing for me 16:37 < cubexyz> what is your weight in KG? :) 16:37 < cubexyz> most people probably would have to convert it 16:38 < cubexyz> I think trump was 230 pounds or a bit more 16:38 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Mine? That's personal :) 16:39 < cubexyz> trump is probably fatter than he stated anyways 16:39 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I can't laugh with everyone because "230 pounds" means nothing to me 16:40 < cubexyz> 104 kg approximately 16:40 < cubexyz> but like I said, it is probably even higher than that 16:40 < XRevan86> cubexyz: That's pretty heavy, but not Trump heavy indeed. 16:41 < cubexyz> ok, the whitehouse said 239 pounds, which is borderline obese 16:42 < cubexyz> 108 kg :) 19:26 < cubexyz> didn't trump cancel? 20:02 < qu1j0t3> cubexyz: this is new 20:02 < qu1j0t3> cubexyz: it's back 20:02 < qu1j0t3> cubexyz: because May is a piece of shit 20:02 < cubexyz> oh 14:28 < cubexyz> ha, the SNES Classic runs BSD 14:33 < cubexyz> BSD elitism: 'Make your own drivers and fuck off' 14:33 < cubexyz> ok, at least I never said that :) 16:57 < cubexyz> not that easy to copy files from chromeos 19:00 < cubexyz> I can't recall any specific java plugin vulnerabilities or any java applet ones 19:01 < cubexyz> but anyways I set up firefox 16 with java applets on one computer 19:02 < cubexyz> I don't use that computer for anything related to financial transactions 19:02 < cubexyz> I thought it was a pain not to be able to use java applets at all 20:33 < oiaohm> cubexyz: put it this way java applet made active-x look secure. 20:33 < oiaohm> cubexyz: neither of them was that good. 20:35 < oiaohm> cubexyz: http://www.vs.inf.ethz.ch/publ/papers/da-schoch.pdf this is from year 2000. Notice how its have java applet call to java jini(native code access) 20:36 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the number of exploitable holes from a java applet are just as endless as active-x 16:11 < cubexyz> my prediction was that people would learn how to fix older devices as a money saving measure 16:14 < cubexyz> other repair people have confirmed what oiaohm told me, that older laser printers are easier to fix, and generally speaking the older they are the easier it is to fix them 16:44 < oiaohm> cubexyz: older they did have computers to work out the min amount of steel required for frame. 16:45 < oiaohm> cubexyz: that is the problem newer printers the frame and wiring has been reduced to bare min. 16:45 < cubexyz> ah I see 16:45 < oiaohm> cubexyz: even using more clip contruction to reduce on screws and other parts. 16:45 < oiaohm> cubexyz: basically cost cutting. 16:46 < cubexyz> it seems that there are many who stock HP 5 series parts, but very few who will sell series 4 parts 20:36 < cubexyz> I always ask the same questions: 20:36 < cubexyz> which tv/computer/printer/monitor is the easiest to repair? 20:36 < cubexyz> talking to repair people helps 20:37 < cubexyz> some of them have quite detailed web articles 23:03 < cubexyz> holy, the telegraph wants 75 pounds per year for a subscription 17:17 -!- cubeman_ is now known as cubexyz 17:18 < cubexyz> "whomsoever it may concern" 17:18 < cubexyz> sometimes I study old(er) english 17:19 < cubexyz> goes along with studying older unix and older C language 17:20 < XRevan86> cubexyz: How much older? 17:20 < cubexyz> nothing older than Chaucer I'd say 17:22 < cubexyz> Tolkien was pretty knowledgeable about middle english 17:24 < cubexyz> actually the Rohan language is old english I think 17:24 < cubexyz> he did something with it at least 17:26 < cubexyz> it just means extreme cold 17:26 < cubexyz> "biting criticism" <--- very harsh criticism 17:28 < cubexyz> what year was Hamlet written in? 17:29 < cubexyz> it's actually fairly understandable for the most part 17:31 < cubexyz> yes, sharply seems more appropriate there 17:32 < cubexyz> oh I see, you're quoting chomsky 17:32 < cubexyz> well, the english language isn't very logical when you get right down to it 17:33 < cubexyz> for example...there were things people said in the 1980s that they don't say now 17:35 < cubexyz> english has expressions that change with time 17:36 < cubexyz> I didn't know what a "smoking bishop" was when I read "A Christmas Carol" 17:36 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Not a bishop who smokes I presume? 17:36 < cubexyz> no :) 17:37 < cubexyz> a type of drink... a "mulled wine" 17:37 < cubexyz> 1840s expression :) 17:39 < cubexyz> basically wine with spice in it 17:40 < cubexyz> XRevan86, you probably don't like texting expressions 17:40 < cubexyz> even harder to understand, and often far removed from proper english 17:41 < cubexyz> I never liked "cuz" instead of "because" 17:41 < cubexyz> just seems lazy 17:42 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I'm full of idioms like everyone else :) 17:43 < cubexyz> did you guys learn latin in school? 17:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: no, only English on a basic level 17:44 < cubexyz> half of english is latin words :) 17:45 < cubexyz> also for science reasons, not a bad idea to learn latin 17:46 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Tiu veras, jes 17:46 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Sed mi scias iom da latinaj vortoj el la lingvo internacia ;) 17:47 < cubexyz> e.g. vernal equinox 17:47 < cubexyz> is that esperanto? You're probably a better linguist than I am 17:48 < cubexyz> Canadians are supposed to be bilingual, but a lot of us are lazy 17:49 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Yes, it is. I know it on a basic level as I don't do anything mostly to keep it fresh. 17:49 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Be bilingual, learn Czech :D 17:50 < cubexyz> I wouldn't be surpised to learn that some of Dickens books were translated into russian 17:50 < cubexyz> Conan Doyle for sure 17:51 < cubexyz> mainly just computer languages 17:51 < cubexyz> a little French... mostly forgotten 17:51 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Russian is a pretty common language, there's definitely Dickens 17:52 < cubexyz> I know old C language quite well :) 17:53 < XRevan86> cubexyz: In my life I found only one book that I wanted to read but wasn't translated. 17:54 < cubexyz> "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" 17:54 < cubexyz> which book? 17:55 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I have spelling difficulties :) 17:55 < cubexyz> how about learning linux in russian schools? surely it's not all M$ over there 17:56 < MinceR> 31 234303 < cubexyz> did you guys learn latin in school? 17:57 < XRevan86> cubexyz: The last book of the Lafayette O'Leary series by Keith Laumer 17:58 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Well, it's fuzzy. Some schools are better than others. 17:59 < cubexyz> haha 17:59 < XRevan86> cubexyz: But Microsoft is strong, that I can tell. 18:00 < cubexyz> it's worse than that, I'm sorry to say 18:01 < cubexyz> I worry about BIOS level control 18:02 < cubexyz> Brazil uses linux quite a bit 18:05 < cubexyz> even with US sanctions? you would think that would put russia off Microsoft products 18:06 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I don't think they affect software at all 18:09 < cubexyz> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-microsoft-exclu/exclusive-u-s-sanctions-curb-microsoft-sales-to-hundreds-of-russian-firms-idUSKBN1FB0MU 18:10 < cubexyz> I can't imagine everyone's happy with win10 18:10 < cubexyz> just as a practical matter 18:11 < XRevan86> cubexyz: A friend of mine was in the army recently 18:12 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I didn't hear about that problem with sales 18:12 < cubexyz> not to mention it's just cheaper to not use M$ products 18:13 < cubexyz> I've disconnected all the XP stuff from the internet for my customers, they are all air-gapped now 18:14 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I remember what Microsoft did when there's a threat of Russian schools going Linux 18:15 < cubexyz> yes, typical 18:16 < cubexyz> yes, there is a picture of Medvedev using Reactos on wikipedia :) 18:19 < cubexyz> by the year 2000, I wanted off Microsoft windows badly 18:19 < cubexyz> even before that I was looking at BeOS and Minix 18:21 < cubexyz> Microsoft's influence is waning though 18:22 < cubexyz> I can walk into any store and buy a chromebook... that wasn't possible in the 1990s 18:22 < cubexyz> XRevan86, yes that is a bit depressing 18:23 < cubexyz> didn't Reactos start in Russia? 18:26 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Not sure 18:31 < cubexyz> yeah I sometimes use qemu to run ReactOS 18:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: So, what do you run ReactOS for? 19:29 < cubexyz> XRevan86, a few years ago I was experimenting with various OSes 19:30 < cubexyz> I wanted to see if Reactos would run the windows programs I wrote 19:30 < cubexyz> which it did 19:33 < cubexyz> all the stuff I wrote a long time ago works with dosbox, freedos, wine, reactos, etc 19:33 < cubexyz> even the Xenix stuff I wrote recompiled without problem with Linux 19:35 < cubexyz> nowadays I concentrate on the foss matrix, e.g. avoiding COM, ActiveX, DDE, RTF, wmv, etc, etc 23:37 < cubexyz> I wonder how well games would work 23:37 < cubexyz> never tried that 23:40 < cubexyz> it can be simple... 23:42 < cubexyz> the unix v5 kernel was only 25,802 bytes 23:47 < cubexyz> lines of code is a bit of a silly measure 23:48 < oiaohm> cubexyz: it does kind give a idea of how bad the review process will be. 23:48 < cubexyz> basic and C you can stuff a bunch of code into one line 23:49 < cubexyz> but my rubik's cube solver on c64 was 2 thousand lines, using the stuffed line metric 23:49 < cubexyz> for statements? :) 23:49 < cubexyz> kind of breaks the count 23:50 < cubexyz> bytes of code might be better 23:51 < cubexyz> bah, nothing surprises me about Microsoft 23:52 < cubexyz> I expect them to do bad things... 23:53 < cubexyz> also in C the switch statement doesn't have one semi-colon per line 23:56 < cubexyz> the original Unix v5 disk image was 2.5 megs, which I thought was really amazingly compact 23:58 < cubexyz> amigados 1.3 was 2 disks, so 880K * 2 00:01 < cubexyz> people could make a compact modern OS, but that's been thrown out the window 00:21 < cubexyz> if you want to be free of M$ crap, you have to get rid of windows 00:21 < cubexyz> no wimping out 04:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: The FOSS matrix is the way to go for sure :-). 18:04 < cubexyz> you can run old plugins on firefox 18:05 < cubexyz> old plugins on old firefox 19:45 < cubexyz> I'd rather mess around with old laser printers than have to use windows 10 13:59 < cubexyz> windows does serve "others" 13:59 < cubexyz> not so much the user 13:59 < cubexyz> M$ reminds me of ENCOM from TRON 14:00 < cubexyz> although in 1982 the big bad was probably IBM 14:49 < cubexyz> hmmm 15:16 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/win10_install_fail.png 15:17 < cubexyz> XRevan86, what about my 486? :) 15:18 < cubexyz> I found out the other day some 486's supported 256 megs of ram 15:18 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Unfortunately, Windows 10 is not supported on your hardware, consider other ways of wasting your hardware. 15:19 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Try hitting it with a hammer. 15:21 < cubexyz> actually 16 megs of ram was pretty painful 15:35 < cubexyz> Red Dwarf :) 15:35 < cubexyz> been a long time since I've seen that 15:36 < XRevan86> cubexyz: There are new episodes aired :) 15:36 < cubexyz> huh, didn't know that 15:37 < XRevan86> cubexyz: And spoiler alert: they aren't bad. 15:37 < cubexyz> Craig Charles still on? 19:37 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I learned about hp laserjet wiper blades today 19:37 < cubexyz> there's a wiper blade and doctor blade inside the toner cartridge 19:38 < cubexyz> evidently these blades deteriorate over time 20:00 < oiaohm> cubexyz: yep the major cause of stripes out of laser printers. 20:00 < oiaohm> cubexyz: its a common laser thing. 19:43 < cubexyz> "openwashing" as you said before 19:51 < schestowitz> cubexyz: I think I coined the term about 9 years ago 19:56 < cubexyz> yes, also there's a reference to Michelle Thorne, 2009 19:56 < cubexyz> seems to be around the same time 19:57 < cubexyz> http://michellethorne.cc/2009/03/openwashing/ 20:00 < cubexyz> around 2000 is when I started thinking about Microsoft a lot 20:00 < cubexyz> but even in 1994 I was looking at alternatives 20:02 < cubexyz> a lot of the win-only stuff was figured out later on, e.g. winmodems, win-only scanners, etc 20:15 < cubexyz> open source goes back to 1998... so yeah, it's not really that old 20:16 < cubexyz> GNU was founded in 1984 20:18 < cubexyz> I remember hearing rumblings about Stallman in the early 1990s 20:20 < cubexyz> Stallman might have posted to Usenet in 1983 about it 20:22 < cubexyz> although a lot of stuff I remember reading on usenet seems to have disappeared 20:23 < cubexyz> Dr Dobbs published an article about The GNU Manifeso in 1985 20:25 < cubexyz> s/Manifeso/Manifesto/ 20:32 < cubexyz> yes, in sept 1983 to net.unix-wizards and net.usoft 20:38 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/stallman-gnu-original-message-1983.txt 21:19 < schestowitz> cubexyz: so I remembered the year right 21:20 < cubexyz> yes 21:22 < cubexyz> Minix 1.0 didn't appear until 1987 21:23 < cubexyz> GCC 1.0 also appeared in 1987 22:48 < cubexyz> on the amiga side we had the fish disks 23:11 < cubexyz> gq 01:08 < cubexyz> I can't use sbopkg for nedit :-/ 01:19 < cubexyz> that's weird... I compiled vcmi and it needs qt5 01:24 < cubexyz> xboconfig -r 'https://github.com/Ponce/slackbuilds.git' 01:24 < cubexyz> maybe try that... 01:24 < cubexyz> I can't remember what I did to make it work 01:28 < cubexyz> I've really wanted to play vcmi but work interrupts 20:00 < cubexyz> they used IBM computers as well 20:01 < cubexyz> IBM/360 model 75 I believe 20:02 < cubexyz> also the Apollo Guidance Computer... 20:30 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: I've been to the old mission control. 20:34 < cubexyz> there was some talk about it being dilapidated 20:35 < cubexyz> I wonder how much stuff they kept 20:36 < cubexyz> I like how they put handles on the sides of the monitors 20:38 < cubexyz> ha, looks like they just started the restoration in jan 2018 20:40 < cubexyz> DaemonFC, you might want to visit again in a year or so 20:41 < cubexyz> 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 mission is coming up, so no doubt they'll try to get it all working again 21:20 < cubexyz> how brain dead do you have to be to buy microsoft surface? 21:26 < cubexyz> learned more about laserprinters today 21:26 < cubexyz> evidently there's lots to learn 00:21 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 20:57 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/radio-streaming-2018.txt 18:14 < cubexyz> I'm a big fan of spelling out the month 18:16 < XRevan86> cubexyz: 22 января 2018 г. :P 18:17 < cubexyz> or put th, st, nd, etc after the date 18:19 < cubexyz> and don't forget there's also rd for third :) 18:20 < cubexyz> evidently they are called "ordinal indictors" 18:20 < cubexyz> yes 18:21 < cubexyz> are those the russian equivalent? 18:22 < XRevan86> cubexyz: yep %) 18:22 < cubexyz> ah, great, everyone uses a different system 18:24 < cubexyz> primo, secondo and tero (for italian) 18:24 < cubexyz> terzo rather 18:26 < cubexyz> right, I know russians add the letter a at the end for female surnames 18:27 < XRevan86> cubexyz: You're generally right, though :) 18:31 < cubexyz> there's also 1º for primo or first 18:38 < cubexyz> anyone ever try learning mongolian? :) 18:39 < cubexyz> they use vertical writing 18:39 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Doesn't Japanese? 18:40 < cubexyz> east asian can be horizontal or vertical I think 18:41 < cubexyz> and japanese has something called yokogaki (horizontal writing) 18:42 < cubexyz> Saint Cyril :) 19:14 < cubexyz> typing unicode is rather awkward 19:16 < XRevan86> cubexyz: :) 19:16 < cubexyz> what was that thing I used to use.... kxkb 19:18 < XRevan86> cubexyz: gucharmap? 19:18 < cubexyz> for gnome yes 19:19 < cubexyz> in KDE there was kcharselect 19:28 < cubexyz> interesting thing about laserjets I found out recently... 19:29 < cubexyz> HP depends on Canon's print engines 19:29 < cubexyz> which in turn use technology developed by Xerox 19:30 < cubexyz> so there's some interchangeability between some HP Laserjets and Canon printers 13:45 < cubexyz> hurray, I can now legally download the 1927 toronto directory 13:48 < cubexyz> also 1928 16:44 < cubexyz> not happy with slackware? 16:52 < cubexyz> XRevan86, maybe you could help me with something 16:53 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I'm listening :) 16:53 < cubexyz> I forgot exactly what I did to setup the ssl stuff 16:53 < XRevan86> cubexyz: certbot maybe? 16:53 < cubexyz> no I didn't use that 16:53 < cubexyz> I did it manually 16:54 < cubexyz> but my server.key and server.crt is old 16:54 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Some lame website that issued a Let's Encrypt certificate one time? 16:54 < cubexyz> yeah 16:54 < XRevan86> cubexyz: You really should get a cron job. 16:54 < cubexyz> I don't remember how I generated server.key and server.crt 16:55 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I'm trying to tell how you *should have been* generated them ;) 16:56 < XRevan86> cubexyz: With Let's Encrypt one should just set an ACME client and relax, not go to a website and download a new certificate every month. 16:57 < cubexyz> right 16:57 < cubexyz> I totally agree 17:00 < cubexyz> wasn't there some openssl command to generate server.key? 17:05 < XRevan86> cubexyz: ugh 17:06 < XRevan86> cubexyz: If you want a certificate no browser will trust 17:07 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Okay, fine 17:07 < XRevan86> cubexyz: https://letsencrypt.org/docs/client-options/ 17:07 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Look at the "Browser" section 17:11 < cubexyz> ok, I think I remember what I did 17:11 < cubexyz> and it worked fine for 3 months 17:17 < XRevan86> cubexyz: and then it expired 22:45 < cubexyz> ok, I'm a bit more knowledgeable about the ssl stuff now 22:46 < cubexyz> was a bit confused about ssl.conf and httpd-ssl.conf 22:47 < cubexyz> the example I used before used server.key but that's just whatever is on the SSLCertificateKeyFile line 22:48 < cubexyz> could be called anything 09:06 < cubexyz> XRevan86, did you add ownership info to your ssl certificate? 09:06 < XRevan86> cubexyz: nah 09:09 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I don't see the point :) 09:09 < cubexyz> yeah, it seems mozilla.org doesn't bother 10:07 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Hmm? They have the info there… 10:38 < cubexyz> ah, for the main domain yes 10:38 < cubexyz> I was looking at https://developer.mozilla.org 14:27 < cubexyz> I've never heard of windows activation keys in the BIOS 14:27 < cubexyz> I guess I shouldn't be surprised... it sounds like something microsoft would do 14:28 < cubexyz> I never really got into XP... and the few times I used it I thought it was slow 14:29 < cubexyz> someone running old hardware like myself exacerbates the inherent slowness of windoze 06:22 < cubexyz> linux did capture some of the market with chromebooks 06:22 < cubexyz> you can walk into almost any computer store and buy one 09:25 < cubexyz> sure, if you make everything illegal then everyone's guilty 09:26 < oiaohm> cubexyz: no the china one was people reporting crimes that were illegal change in content altered what people would report. 09:26 < oiaohm> cubexyz: were illegal years before the great firewall. 09:27 < cubexyz> everything needs some sort of balance 09:28 < cubexyz> you can't be too authoritarian or too liberal 09:29 < cubexyz> I wouldn't be surprised if China had more crime 09:29 < cubexyz> more people = more contention for resources 09:30 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the example I was refering to the population had not changed content access did and and their responses changed. 09:30 < cubexyz> censorship is generally bad 09:31 < oiaohm> But there would be still stuff you would class as should be cenored right cubexyz 09:31 < cubexyz> sure... slanderous statements, lies, hate speech 09:32 < cubexyz> I wouldn't have any problem censoring that 09:33 < cubexyz> well, people can believe some pretty silly things 09:34 < cubexyz> I don't really see much censorship on the net 09:35 < cubexyz> that is true 09:37 < cubexyz> no, that would be impossible 09:37 < cubexyz> you'd have to ban all communication :) 11:39 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 09:40 < cubexyz> you don't even need 50 people, one will do :) 09:40 < cubexyz> anyone can bake bread 09:41 < gde33> cubexyz: the important part was doing it together 09:41 < cubexyz> and there is a small privated owned bakery near me 09:41 < XRevan86> cubexyz: 49 other people can do marketing :) 09:41 < cubexyz> what you describe already exists 09:42 < cubexyz> you could start a bakery for about $10K 09:42 < cubexyz> it's the old problem of calculating how much bread to bake 09:43 < gde33> cubexyz: its solvable 09:43 < gde33> cubexyz: you get 4 loafs in stead of 1 and put 3 with the trash 09:43 < cubexyz> I'll ask the guy near me what he does :) 09:45 < cubexyz> I was told my great-aunt baked all the time 09:46 < cubexyz> most people born in the 1910s would have those skills 09:46 < cubexyz> it's just we are now in the dumb-ass generation that can't do anything 09:48 < XRevan86> cubexyz: s/can't/wouldn't/ 09:48 < gde33> cubexyz: even the simple things that we could do we aren't doing collectively 09:49 < cubexyz> united auto workers? UA Plumbers and Pipefitters? 09:50 < gde33> cubexyz: I mean end users owning everything 14:28 < cubexyz> my upload speed is awful :-/ 14:28 < cubexyz> and the silly thing is, I have two internet services 14:28 < cubexyz> 3.5 hours to upload 800 megs 14:42 < XRevan86> cubexyz: sheesh 15:24 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 18:42 < cubexyz> people are regularly posting "win10 is the worst operating system ever" on https://answers.microsoft.com 18:43 < cubexyz> makes you wonder how much longer people will tolerate the nonsense 18:43 < cubexyz> also an observation about FC1... 18:43 < cubexyz> remember how windows gets slower and slower over time? 18:44 < cubexyz> well... I installed FC1 in 2004 and it's no slower now than 14 years ago 18:44 < XRevan86> cubexyz: This can be solved kind of through a several obscure tricks no one knows 18:45 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I'd rather not even touch windows 18:45 < cubexyz> unfortunately not possible as yet 18:46 < XRevan86> cubexyz: just sayin' :) 18:47 < cubexyz> I wanted to fix some Loki games bugs, but I can't due to source code no have 18:48 < cubexyz> http://maxhost.org/other/linux-cleaner.jpg 18:50 < cubexyz> even wine is a bit of a pain really 19:07 < cubexyz> even in the msdos days things weren't as bad 19:07 < cubexyz> 10 minutes tops to reload the OS 19:07 < cubexyz> now... reloading the OS is a major event 15:25 < cubexyz> still like KDE3 better 15:26 < cubexyz> of course I've had a lot of time to configure everything exactly the way I like it (over 10 years) 16:04 < cubexyz> unfortunately running old firefox on the old(er) linux is starting to be quite a problem 16:05 < cubexyz> getting a lot of ssl errors now 19:33 < cubexyz> I'm a bit surprised that chrome has taken over so much market share 19:34 < cubexyz> and I don't know too many people using IE as their browser 19:35 < cubexyz> I use about half chrome and half firefox 19:35 < cubexyz> nothing is universal though 19:36 < cubexyz> sometimes chrome is better, sometimes firefox is better... 19:37 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I guess you don't use google drive or chromebooks? 19:37 < XRevan86> cubexyz: nope 19:37 < cubexyz> DaemonFC, does that work outside of the USA? 19:37 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I have Nextcloud and _a_ laptop :) 19:39 < cubexyz> USA only it looks 19:42 < cubexyz> I don't really like google drive that much though 19:42 < cubexyz> I got 2 years free access with the chromebook 17:21 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: You should check out Shop Goodwill. 18:08 < cubexyz> MinceR, Apple II :) 18:09 < cubexyz> it really was the better machine at the time 15:52 < cubexyz> crazy that 4 gigs of ram is considered a low memory 15:53 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Welcome to the new world of heavy bloated gunk %). 15:58 < cubexyz> I remember majesty gold system requirements... 15:58 < cubexyz> 166 Mhz processor, 32 megs of ram and video card with 4 megs :) 16:00 < cubexyz> wasn't that long ago... wasn't released for linux until 2003 19:52 < cubexyz> I have to figure out this tunein stuff 19:52 < cubexyz> a lot of sites have switched to it 05:24 < schestowitz> cubexyz: https://www.maketecheasier.com/play-rubiks-cube-terminal-linux/ 19:52 < cubexyz> schestowitz, honestly nrubik looks horrible :) 19:53 < cubexyz> for some reason yellow looks like orange in the terminal 19:53 < cubexyz> orange looks like purple 19:54 < cubexyz> which is odd since I know bash can do yellow 19:57 < cubexyz> and using a mnemonic based on colour is silly 20:01 < cubexyz> he's organized the cube in a way similar to the way I do 20:09 < cubexyz> here's a bunch of different cube programs: 20:09 < cubexyz> http://cubeman.org/cubesoft.html 21:25 < schestowitz> cubexyz: just mentioned it as I saw it 21:30 < cubexyz> X11 actually does a good job of representing colours 21:31 < cubexyz> normally when cube hacking I'm using some X11 program because colour is pretty important 21:31 < cubexyz> just can't do a good job of that with ncurses 21:40 < cubexyz> computer cubing is mainly to facilitate searches for solving sequences or pretty patterns 21:40 < cubexyz> and yes, mapping a cube onto a text 2d space is pretty limiting :) 21:43 < cubexyz> sometimes I don't use the computer at all... I have a separate section for cube sequences found via pen and paper 21:48 < cubexyz> cubing from stratch helps the memory I'd say 21:49 < cubexyz> s/stratch/scratch/ 21:50 < cubexyz> by all means, use a real cube :) 08:36 < cubexyz> when I create a text file, I usually break up the lines with carriage returns 08:36 < cubexyz> probably because I use vim a lot 08:37 < cubexyz> just seems more elegant 09:35 < cubexyz> I can't remember ever using gksu 10:07 < cubexyz> kdesu may still be available 09:52 < cubexyz> I use glabels to print labels 09:53 < cubexyz> that's the only part of gnome I'm using these days 09:54 < cubexyz> and gqview on some of the older linuxes 09:55 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Geeqie is not part of the GNOME project. 09:55 < cubexyz> oh ok 09:55 < cubexyz> I assumed it was 09:55 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It doesn't look the part :) 09:57 < cubexyz> but gqview did use gtk 09:57 < cubexyz> doesn't that count as part of gnome? 09:57 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I can make a GTK+ hello, world in a minute 09:58 < cubexyz> ok, perhaps not 09:58 < XRevan86> python3 -c 'from gi.repository import Gtk; window = Gtk.Window(); label = Gtk.Label("Hello, cubexyz"); window.add(label); label.show(); window.show(); Gtk.main()' 09:59 < cubexyz> I thought GTK = gnome tool kit 10:00 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It is, but everyone can use it nonetheless. 10:00 < XRevan86> cubexyz: After all, MATE, Cinnamon, Xfce use it. Are they part of GNOME? 10:00 < cubexyz> I guess not 10:01 < cubexyz> ok, then that's the only part of gnome I'm using :) 10:03 < XRevan86> cubexyz: and their git server 10:03 < cubexyz> but I'd still say kalzium is part of KDE 10:04 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It seems to be part of KDE Applications 10:05 < cubexyz> as far as I know there is no klabels 10:06 < cubexyz> there was kbarcode, but I'm not sure if that can print labels 10:06 < cubexyz> hmmm, ok looks like it can 10:07 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I use avery 5199 to label my VHS tape collection :) 10:15 < XRevan86> cubexyz: :) 10:16 < XRevan86> cubexyz: PAL or SECAM? %) 10:16 < cubexyz> I thought the acronym got changed 10:17 < cubexyz> XRevan86, in Canada it was NTSC 10:17 < XRevan86> cubexyz: oh 10:18 < cubexyz> XRevan86, you should still be able to compile the old gqview 10:19 < cubexyz> I think I have 2.1.5 still 10:19 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Why would I? %) 10:20 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It seems 2.1.5 was "unstable" (: 10:20 < cubexyz> really, ha I've been using it a long time 10:20 < XRevan86> cubexyz: For 12 years probably 10:20 < cubexyz> that sounds about right 20:12 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: cubexyz, amarsh04, DaemonFC, siel, @ChanServ, TechrightsBot-tr 21:28 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 15:40 < cubexyz> FC1 runs something called rhn-applet-gui 15:40 < cubexyz> it burns up the most CPU on the server 15:41 < cubexyz> yup, looks unnecessay 15:42 < cubexyz> all this time and I'm just noticing it now :) 15:42 < cubexyz> some python script thing 18:09 < cubexyz> if I compare the openbsd box and the FC1 box it's clear that the openbsd box uses less CPU in general 18:10 < cubexyz> the xserver in particular 18:10 < cubexyz> both have similar uptimes of around 270 days 18:11 < cubexyz> FC1 xserver: 93 hours 18:11 < cubexyz> openbsd xserver: 16 hours 19:10 < cubexyz> everything I wrote for X11 worked fine for XFree86 4.3.0 19:11 < cubexyz> and all my original coreboot work is still on the FC1 box 19:12 < cubexyz> but it's just the server now... I don't use it for anything else 19:13 < cubexyz> the software update log will make interesting reading for future historians 10:10 < kuldeepLP8J59> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ HAPPY APRIL FLOODS DAY BROUGHT TO YOU BY iяс.sцреяиетs.ояg сни sцреявоwl uwktesoi: cubexyz ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ 16:39 < cubexyz> some of the loki games are 20 years old 16:39 < cubexyz> I still play HOMM3, RT2, EUS 16:41 < cubexyz> 20 years ago would be around the redhat 5.2 era 16:42 < cubexyz> some of the KDE1 people didn't like any of the following versions 16:43 < cubexyz> hmmm, not quite 20 years for redhat 5.2 16:43 < cubexyz> nov 1998 18:46 < cubexyz> I suspend some of my desktops at the end of the day 18:47 < cubexyz> only the server and the irc box run 24/7 20:56 < cubexyz> ha 21:03 < cubexyz> comcast is widely hated 21:08 < cubexyz> I'm not thrilled with Bell Canada either 22:54 < cubexyz> I remember when I bought my first 286 22:54 < cubexyz> at the time I thought 1 meg of ram was a lot 22:55 < cubexyz> so I have no idea why these DE's need gigabytes of ram 22:56 < cubexyz> for starters I suppose I would blame the web browsers 22:58 < cubexyz> most of my computers run icewm now 22:58 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: They crammed all of Windows 2000 into less than 64 MB of RAM. 22:58 < cubexyz> seemed to be the optimal ram/feature ratio 22:59 < cubexyz> hmmm, I'm not sure if it is bloating up as fast as windows but surely it's not far behind 23:00 < cubexyz> I spent about a month experimenting with linux with 16 megs 23:00 < cubexyz> and my conclusion was: possible... but painful 23:01 < cubexyz> well HOMM3, Majesty and RT2 would all run on 32 megs of ram or less 23:01 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Someone got it running on a 486 recently. 23:02 < cubexyz> yeah, well I did it on a 486 but it was linux 2.2 kernel 23:02 < cubexyz> with X mind you... 23:02 < cubexyz> modern linux, probably impossible 23:04 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/linux-486.jpg 23:04 < cubexyz> just the bare bones really 23:05 < cubexyz> it helps to know your ISP people 23:08 < cubexyz> but as MinceR pointed out to me years ago, the big problem with old computers is they can't really handle the newer encryption standards 23:08 < cubexyz> so there's some things you just can't do 23:08 < cubexyz> you can't run a modern web browser 23:13 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Modern CPUs have hardware acceleration for dealing with encryption. 23:31 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: There was a time when downloading an entire operating system was almost impossible, you know. 15:18 < cubexyz> two amigados disks would be about 1.6 megs 15:18 < cubexyz> so downloading that at 9600 baud would have been about 22 minutes 15:19 < cubexyz> so downloading an OS in the past was definitely possible 15:19 < cubexyz> we downloaded fish disks quite often... 15:23 < cubexyz> these started to appear in late 1985, shortly after the original amiga first appeared 17:23 < cubexyz> I'm redoing my NOAA links 17:24 < cubexyz> for some reason the old links disappeared on me 17:50 < cubexyz> born in 1959 17:50 < cubexyz> can't really say he "grew up" in the 50's 17:52 < cubexyz> some Dads would refer to their wife as mom if they were talking to their kids 20:08 < cubexyz> changing URL to: 20:08 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/techrights-2018.log 20:08 < cubexyz> a bit late since it's not 2017 any more 20:09 < cubexyz> I'll probably remove the 2017 stuff as it just keeps accumulating 20:11 < cubexyz> only about 7 megs since sept 2017 20:14 < schestowitz> cubexyz: that crashed the bot LOL 20:15 < cubexyz> the original techrights.log was up to 68 megs 20:41 < cubexyz> Walden and Harper sound clueless 20:41 < cubexyz> so we're all supposed to rely on Adobe and Microsoft? HA! 20:45 < cubexyz> I'd say that win10 is too complex to fix 20:46 < cubexyz> and the user is almost 100% powerless to make any fixes 20:48 < cubexyz> allow me to cite this little gem: 20:48 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/more-win10-fun.txt 20:50 < cubexyz> I have lots of ancedotes dating back to 1995, so the win10 nonsense it's anything new 20:50 < cubexyz> isn't anything new rather 20:52 < cubexyz> windows has been a no go since win2k 20:52 < cubexyz> I never really started with XP 20:52 < cubexyz> since I do motherboard swaps... there's just no way I'd even consider it 20:58 < cubexyz> win10 does stuff without asking... that's probably the best reason not to use it 20:59 < cubexyz> one doesn't even need to invoke the FOSS philosophy for reasons not to use win10 22:10 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: The problem is that even if Windows 10 does drive people over the edge, they'll keep using it, or get a Mac. 22:11 < cubexyz> or at least a chromebook 22:14 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Maybe after they do the VM that lets you run a regular Linux distribution. 22:15 < cubexyz> agreed 00:29 < cubexyz> I don't think the chromebook is perfect 00:29 < cubexyz> but with crouton it's OK 18:52 < cubexyz> well we need to watch the BIOS/UEFI situation 18:53 < cubexyz> make certain your new motherboard or whatever doesn't have a linux/bsd hostile BIOS 18:55 < cubexyz> there's a thing called CSM (Compatibility Support Module), make sure if you get UEFI you also have CSM 18:57 < cubexyz> or even better, motherboard that ships with coreboot 18:57 < cubexyz> tough to find outside of chromebook/boxes 19:00 < cubexyz> well there's always Sun Ultra :) 19:00 < cubexyz> not sure if that's faster than FPGA 19:01 < cubexyz> you probably mean new Sun Ultra 19:01 < cubexyz> no idea then 19:03 < cubexyz> you can look at the openbios source 19:03 < cubexyz> openboot I think they call it 19:04 < cubexyz> I don't think there's anything bad in old Sun, or old P3's or older 19:04 < cubexyz> I spent a lot of time looking at P3 era BIOS, even putting coreboot on one 19:07 < cubexyz> I guess a high spec chromebox might be a solution 19:08 < cubexyz> the acid test is "can you boot the OS you want" 19:08 < cubexyz> and there's lots of stuf I still have to figure out, even with the old stuff 19:09 < cubexyz> basically you want all the datasheets for all the chips 19:15 < cubexyz> I thought Dell had some non-intel management engine computers 19:17 < cubexyz> I think Mincer wants a CPU without any ME 19:19 < cubexyz> the stuff I understand the best is from 1998 19:21 < cubexyz> ok, actually the z80 stuff is probably the best understood 19:21 < cubexyz> it's doubtful anyone is going to use that, but there's no funny stuff 19:26 < cubexyz> I'll probably buy a few ASUS P5KPL-AM boards 19:26 < cubexyz> or something similar 19:29 < cubexyz> I know the coreboot people were having problems with SATA on skylake 19:34 < cubexyz> doesn't Garrett work for google now? 20:27 < cubexyz> yeah locking down all the boot devices isn't something anyone asked for 20:28 < cubexyz> at least not for home computers 20:28 < cubexyz> all those live CDs, you'd be locked out of that 20:31 < cubexyz> anyone worried about UEFI needs coreboot 01:39 < oiaohm> cubexyz: problem is locking down the boot process makes sense if it done right. Having 1 master KEK for a stack of distributions does not make any sense. 01:40 < oiaohm> cubexyz: Valid is systems made it simple to set the KEK of the operating systems you use so attackers would have to match your operating systems or be stuffed. 01:46 < cubexyz> oiaohm, that's a bit silly 01:46 < cubexyz> what if I want to boot freedos or tom's root boot or AROS? 01:47 < cubexyz> I'm not going to want to bugger around with KEK or whatever 01:51 < oiaohm> cubexyz: note I said simple to set KEK. You insert a disc of the OS you have never used before the firmware finds that the disc has OS KEK on it with boot loader(for legacy systems this could be legacy firmware image) Firmware displays a message to end user if system has password set need password other wise ask user if they want to use a new OS and if user approves adds KEK and boot system. 01:52 < oiaohm> cubexyz: of course if you are not installing a new OS and system is asking to register a new OS because someone is attempting to replace your core files it going to ring alarm bells. 01:53 < oiaohm> cubexyz: this would also prevent the 1000+ operating systems using the 1 KEK problem we currently have. 01:54 < cubexyz> there's already crouton bork-ups I'm sorry to say 01:54 < cubexyz> had to deal with that today 01:59 < oiaohm> cubexyz: please note some of the bios of old use to warn you if someone had replaced the MBR and some even would offer to roll it back. 02:00 < oiaohm> cubexyz: secureboot done right could have been that approved. Now the model were everyone has to pay to be registered on the same CA set is bad. 02:04 < cubexyz> right, it complicates something that should be simple 02:20 < cubexyz> well if you can roll your own coreboot for your device then you're in the clear 02:20 < cubexyz> I admit this is pretty hard 02:23 < cubexyz> the whole pattern is wrong though 02:23 < cubexyz> the trend is to restrict everything... 02:23 < cubexyz> like PVRs where you can't backup anything 02:34 < cubexyz> if the firmware really borked up, you would just reflash 02:35 < oiaohm> cubexyz: exaclty you would reflash becuase it would boot any more because it would not validate. 02:36 < cubexyz> well not always :) 02:36 < cubexyz> I have it 02:36 < cubexyz> my kickstart rom for my amiga 500 has lasted 30 years so far :) 02:37 < cubexyz> I can't really recall a time where I had to reflash except for when I was working on coreboot 02:38 < cubexyz> right, the gigabyte GA-6BXC and the amiga 500 both were socketed 02:39 < cubexyz> and DRM and lock-down is creeping into a lot of areas 02:40 < cubexyz> actually oiaohm, in some ways the amiga 500 was more secure 02:40 < cubexyz> you actually had to take it apart to upgrade the rom chip 02:48 < cubexyz> probably microsoft's doing 02:48 < cubexyz> make anything not microsoft harder to use 18:54 < cubexyz> when I watched Independence day (1996) I half expected Bill Pullman to make some Spaceballs joke 19:21 < cubexyz> I use parts of KDE 19:24 < cubexyz> you're probably not using kfloppy either, if that even still exists now 19:26 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: kfloppy is still available. 19:27 < cubexyz> I still like KDE 3.5.10 version of konsole better than the 4.X.X one 19:27 < cubexyz> I got KDE 4.14.21 on the slack box 19:31 < cubexyz> maybe openbsd still can use KDE 3.5.10 still 19:33 < cubexyz> not sure after openbsd 5.8 what happened 19:34 < cubexyz> yup, looks like KDE 3.5.10 die-hards can still have it in openbsd 6.3 19:41 < cubexyz> actually there was a couple of times I complained so much I got source code 19:41 < cubexyz> they said "you fix it" 19:42 < cubexyz> only under NDA though, so not ideal but much better than nothing 19:43 < cubexyz> in games bugs don't always get fixed 19:44 < cubexyz> there's a lot of time pressure to ship as soon as possible 19:45 < cubexyz> as for programs like amarok the problem is the streaming services change all the time 19:46 < cubexyz> CBC must have changed their URLs a dozen times 20:13 < cubexyz> FC1 was quite stable 20:41 < cubexyz> ok, I don't know if anyone here uses crouton but the update to chromeos 67 broke it 20:41 < cubexyz> to fix it you have to update crouton to 10539.0.0 20:43 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: That's why I'd wait for Google to have the official VM support. 20:43 < cubexyz> that would be nice 21:04 < cubexyz> big rigs? :) 21:04 < cubexyz> over the road, under the road, who knows? 21:19 < cubexyz> RT2 and HOMM3 have bugs too, but no where near as bad 00:32 < cubexyz> well, there's your problem right there 00:32 < cubexyz> using office 365 00:32 < cubexyz> and I wouldn't recommend thunderbird 00:33 < cubexyz> some of the BSD people like elm 00:33 < cubexyz> I use mutt as an email client _or_ gmail 00:34 < cubexyz> kmail, thunderbird etc, I stopped using those a lot time ago 00:34 < cubexyz> generally I try to use a text based program for things if possible 00:36 < cubexyz> especially if you have older computers, text based programs is a no-brainer 00:38 < schestowitz> [05:34] kmail, thunderbird etc, I stopped using those a lot time ago 00:40 < cubexyz> gmail had really good spam filtering 00:41 < cubexyz> I'd see kmail (or whatever graphical client I was using before that) fill up with crap 00:45 < cubexyz> there was a memory bottleneck too... I was hitting it a lot 21:35 < cubexyz> MinceR, the way you complain about systemd all the time makes me a bit surprised you don't run BSD 21:35 < cubexyz> of course there are other alternatives 21:35 < cubexyz> and I do worry about slackware sometimes, but so far so good 21:37 < cubexyz> and openbsd 6.3 still has KDE 3.5.10, I'm very tempted to put it on one machine 21:38 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: I think my favorite desktop was GNOME 2.x with that Nimbus theme from Solaris. 21:39 < cubexyz> can't remember what version of gnome FC1 has 21:41 < cubexyz> version 2.4 says wikipedia 21:42 < cubexyz> gtk1 21:42 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Fedora used to be great when it had GNOME 2.x. 21:45 < cubexyz> as you can imagine, I'm not relying on repos for FC1 :) 21:46 < cubexyz> it's all tar balls now 21:47 < cubexyz> a long time ago yes 21:48 < cubexyz> I think slackware is still lilo 21:49 < cubexyz> multi-OS booting? 21:49 < cubexyz> I still run freedos sometimes 22:20 < cubexyz> can't imagine too many people buying linspire 01:05 < MinceR> cubexyz: i'll see if some sane BSD will even run on my hardware 01:08 < cubexyz> I started with slackware or at least a slackware derivative, switched to fedora for quite a long time, now it's back to slackware 01:11 < cubexyz> walmart doesn't really seem like a good place to take your car 03:33 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: I just bought some coolant there. 20:59 < cubexyz> there's a bit of spam on tuxmachines 21:00 < cubexyz> just appeared today actually 21:01 < cubexyz> http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/71994 21:06 < schestowitz> cubexyz: oh, thanks 22:01 < cubexyz> a great pity there's no source code for the old loki games 22:16 < cubexyz> schestowitz, just came across this... it merely confirms what I've thought for a long time: 22:20 < cubexyz> https://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html 22:21 < cubexyz> not too often anyone agrees with me that "every windows version sucks" :) 22:41 < razielle_tzu> cubexyz: good article, pity about some of the comments 22:41 < cubexyz> yeah, whoever it is isn't really _that_ enlightened 22:42 < cubexyz> snarky linux comments, plus no mention at all of other alternatives 22:48 < cubexyz> no suggestions on what is good, merely an ever accumulating list of things which are bad 22:50 < cubexyz> they do mention migrating to MacOS, and there are a couple of positive linux remarks 22:51 < cubexyz> I was more disappointed by no mention of the BSDs 22:52 < cubexyz> I like openbsd, I like slackware 22:52 < cubexyz> ah well, there are some BSD users out there :) 22:53 < cubexyz> ah I see, what used to be called PC-BSD 23:04 < cubexyz> recommended: 3.72 gigs of ram <--- this puts me off a bit 23:08 < cubexyz> I think those shipped with 2 gigs 23:09 < cubexyz> expandable to 4 gigs 08:56 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 21:53 < cubexyz> no 32-bit trueos? 21:53 < cubexyz> maybe I'm reading that wrong 21:55 < cubexyz> ok... trying to remember what that other box had 21:55 < cubexyz> I think I still have the motherboard box 21:58 < cubexyz> "only 64-bit hardware platform is supported at this time" 22:00 < cubexyz> umm, the box had 240 pin memory... I should be able to figure out it was 22:00 < cubexyz> AM2 socket 22:00 < cubexyz> I think that's 64-bit 22:01 < cubexyz> Athlon 64... so trueos is possible, even though it's got only 2 gigs of ram 22:02 < cubexyz> well, for the older computers there's always openbsd or whatever 22:04 < cubexyz> I sure hope not :) 22:06 < cubexyz> although it is backwards compatible with 32-bit x86 instructions 22:07 < cubexyz> I can't remember exactly which processor it is, but I'll probably check it out tonight 22:07 < cubexyz> people are actually dumping their "old" 2007 boxes 22:12 < cubexyz> sure, as long as I can get 40-pin IDE drives for them 22:12 < cubexyz> or 50-pin scsi for the amiga 22:14 < cubexyz> I have a stack of 50-pin cdroms I bought a long time ago 22:21 < cubexyz> I haven't even turned on the amiga 500 since jan 1st 2017 22:24 < cubexyz> none of the techs I used to deal with want to touch the old amiga stuff 22:24 < cubexyz> they are either retired or dead, I'm sorry to say 22:26 < cubexyz> FPGA yes 22:27 < cubexyz> I still want my original hardware to work though 00:23 < cubexyz> guess I'll download the trueos iso 00:31 < cubexyz> the thing is with minimig is it never seems to be in stock 02:55 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:55 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 20:20 < cubexyz> don't use surface :) 20:20 < cubexyz> or nag pegatron for documentation 20:34 < cubexyz> I approach all laptops with a certain degree of trepidation 20:35 < cubexyz> can one get parts, what is the BIOS like, etc 01:40 < cubexyz> my trueos install was a bust 01:40 < cubexyz> target computer has a failing SATA drive or the motherboard is failing in some fashion 01:45 < cubexyz> once again, the P3's seem to outlast everything else 05:27 < cubexyz> haha books? 05:29 < cubexyz> http://maxhost.org/other/bookz.txt 05:29 < cubexyz> ok, I delete that later :) 05:31 < cubexyz> I'm sure you can circumvent these limitations XRevan86 :) 05:31 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I do that by using XMPP %). 06:57 < cubexyz> microsoft is losing their power 06:57 < cubexyz> chromebooks, android tablets, even apple's stuff, people don't have to put up with M$'s crap 08:12 < cubexyz> no, billy mays is dead :) 08:14 < cubexyz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mays 21:05 < cubexyz> I can't believe people say that their computers don't last beyond 5 years 21:05 < cubexyz> and gamers say only 2 years! 21:05 < cubexyz> ridiculous... 21:07 < cubexyz> must be a lot of junky computers though 00:59 < cubexyz> found out today that some P4's can do 64-bit 02:51 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Yeah, some of them can. 01:23 < cubexyz> MinceR, Loki games actually made games for PowerPC, Sparc and Alpha 01:23 < cubexyz> not many, but some 01:23 < cubexyz> just mentioning that since you're looking for alternatives to intel 01:31 < cubexyz> maybe VIA has something 05:24 < MinceR> cubexyz: i see 07:34 < cubexyz> the fastest dec alpha would certainly be faster than my P3's 07:38 < cubexyz> almost getting into classic computing 07:39 < cubexyz> run NT on it, ho ho ho 07:41 < cubexyz> I guess 2004 was the end of the line for alpha 07:54 < oiaohm> cubexyz: something to remember alpha was proper 64 bit. NT on a Alpha under run in 32 bit mode . 07:55 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so Windows nt basically cut the alpha performance a lot. 07:55 < cubexyz> I added the "ho ho ho" to indicate I would never do that :) 07:56 < oiaohm> cubexyz: really the history of it. The fact that back then there was not Windows 64 bit applications. 07:56 < cubexyz> probably I would go openbsd/alpha 07:57 < cubexyz> or Sun Ultra 10, and fart around with that 08:49 < cubexyz> not sure what the point of the linux foundation is then 08:53 < cubexyz> well they are pusing aside the Free Software Foundation it seems 08:53 < cubexyz> pushing 08:57 < cubexyz> it's a personal info thing isn't it? 08:58 < cubexyz> what you really want is SSI computers with Unix v7 :) 08:58 < cubexyz> small scale integration 08:58 < cubexyz> like PDP-11 :) 09:01 < cubexyz> if you don't like something in software just write your own 09:03 < cubexyz> actually you'd have to go back before the PDP-11 to get SSI 09:04 < cubexyz> wait I'm wrong 09:04 < cubexyz> PDP-11/20 was SSI, so early PDP-11 09:18 < cubexyz> what was the point of mono again? 09:18 < cubexyz> run microsoft stuff on linux? 09:19 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It was the Vala for GNOME before Vala existed. 09:45 < cubexyz> well if you look at other's people's C++ code... 09:45 < cubexyz> some games used it 11:52 < cubexyz> secret chats maybe? 11:52 < cubexyz> and the russian government doesn't like it I guess 11:52 < XRevan86> cubexyz: No, I mean, why RKN fails at blocking Telegram. 14:53 < cubexyz> just found out that "mozilla" originally meant "mosaic killer" 14:57 < cubexyz> so obviously oracle bought netscape at some point 14:57 < cubexyz> odd that I never realized that 15:07 < cubexyz> ah I see what happened... 15:07 < cubexyz> Netscape was acquired by AOL and Sun, then Oracle acquired Sun 15:18 < cubexyz> erwise predated mosaic, but probably almost no one remembers it 15:25 < cubexyz> it's said that erwise was the first graphical web browser 15:32 < cubexyz> so dillo is the way I'm going to probably go for older/slower computers for web browsing 15:32 < cubexyz> erwise is extinct, so is mosaic 15:34 < cubexyz> I think it just did text rendering 15:39 < cubexyz> both early graphical web browsers were X11 based 15:44 < cubexyz> and I'm not sure dillo will handle https stuff 15:47 < cubexyz> ok for web pages I created though 15:47 < cubexyz> not so great for government sites, banking, ebay, etc etc 15:48 < cubexyz> mosaic and erwise used motif 15:21 < cubexyz> how is the templeOS guy doing these days? 15:29 < cubexyz> his web site is pretty crazy 15:45 < cubexyz> yes 15:47 < cubexyz> it's just like you said 15:47 < cubexyz> M$ wants everybody to be dependent on them 15:48 < cubexyz> I'd never rely on web storage 15:48 < cubexyz> not unless I owned the server(s) and had backups as well 15:49 < cubexyz> chromebook is fine... if you use crouton 08:50 < cubexyz> and if we do draw enough users away from the proprietary software, we get systemd and gnome3 08:50 < cubexyz> there's no way to win 08:50 < cubexyz> sure there is... 08:50 < cubexyz> the BSDs, slackware, and others I'm sure 08:52 < cubexyz> I've talked to a lot of people and no one wanted windows 10 08:52 < cubexyz> there's a limit to how much bs people will tolerate 08:53 < cubexyz> yonger ones... I'm not really sure how much they are thinking about this topic 08:54 < cubexyz> yes, some are 10:21 < cubexyz> MinceR, people are just lazy 10:23 < cubexyz> they say things like "I tried linux for a week, now I'm going back to windows 7" 10:23 < cubexyz> what are they going to do when win7 is obsolete? 10:26 < cubexyz> probably forced, yes 10:26 < cubexyz> I'm not sure you can buy a win7 box new 10:29 < cubexyz> the young folks seem to be gravitating towards android 10:31 < cubexyz> Canada Computers is selling Beeboxes on clearance 10:36 < cubexyz> no clue about the BIOS on those as yet 12:47 < cubexyz> Eric Lundgren should have just used linux CDs 12:47 < cubexyz> stay away from the poisonous M$ crap 12:51 < schestowitz> [17:47] stay away from the poisonous M$ crap 12:53 < cubexyz> well Lundgren screwed up 12:54 < cubexyz> he even pleaded guilty to two charges, conspiracy and copyright infringement 12:54 < cubexyz> of course Microsoft were utter dicks about it 13:42 < cubexyz> maybe make the comes documents more visible 13:43 < cubexyz> I haven't seen many references to it of late 13:51 < cubexyz> another case similar to Lundgren's was Alex Kibkalo 13:52 < cubexyz> Kibkalo's case was a bit more serious... he leaked the Activation Server SDK code :) 13:54 < cubexyz> also M$ rifled through Kibkalo's hotmail account without a court order 13:54 < cubexyz> incredibly stupid for Kibkalo to use the hotmail account though 15:44 < schestowitz> cubexyz: yes, that was dumb 17:44 < cubexyz> Apple is for posers 17:46 < cubexyz> veblen goods, in the same category as rolex watches 12:55 < cubexyz> I'm guessing Bosch? 13:00 < cubexyz> nope, not Bosch 13:01 < cubexyz> more of an optical illusion than weird 14:48 < cubexyz> openbsd is pretty good at not running a lot of processes 15:07 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Hans de Goede's patch for SATA power management that mirrors the Intel RST driver on Windows is responsible for a lot of that. 08:02 < cubexyz> ummm, what is Stephen Duignan talking about 08:02 < cubexyz> 1959? 08:02 < cubexyz> it's 1950 08:02 < cubexyz> oops wait maybe I'm wrong :) 08:04 < cubexyz> no, Duignan got the year wrong... should be 1950 08:20 < cubexyz> back in 2012 there was a comparison between the VHS version and the 2012 blu-ray 08:22 < cubexyz> ok, in the blu-ray forum they gave cinderella a 5 (out of 10) 08:24 < cubexyz> the original negatives may have deteriorated 08:29 < cubexyz> they cropped the original star trek so it could fit 16:9 which I thought was stupid 08:31 < cubexyz> the pumpkin not having any lines so cinderella looks like she's riding around in a sphere :) 08:32 < cubexyz> so yes they botched it up 08:35 < cubexyz> unless you watched the original technicolor film, you're not seeing the original 08:54 < oiaohm> cubexyz: really 5:3/15:9(yes 15:9 is what it is in the original Japanese specifications) cropped to 16:9 is stupid. Stretched to 16:9 does look a little wrong as well. 09:12 < cubexyz> oiaohm, there was absolutely no need to crop tos star trek when they could have shown it as 4:3 09:14 < cubexyz> I remember a few movies on tv where they did something weird, it was compressed along the X-axis 09:14 < cubexyz> so everyone looked skinny 09:16 < cubexyz> mind you, that was quite a long time ago 15:12 < cubexyz> touch of death 12:29 < cubexyz> don't forget that OS/2 and Windows and even VM/CMS followed IBM's lead 12:29 < cubexyz> CUA = Common User Access 12:34 < cubexyz> also twm predated win95 12:34 < cubexyz> but a lot of WM's did emulate win95's start menu 12:36 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/ultrix-vax-4.5-twm_1280x1024.png 12:44 < cubexyz> everything seemed to coalesce around 1994 12:45 < cubexyz> cheap PCs running X11R6 12:53 < cubexyz> I thought it was very odd that win95 was so popular 12:54 < cubexyz> people could have installed freebsd with XFree86, I was even selling the CDs at the time 12:55 < cubexyz> yes, I think the pre-installs had a huge influence 13:24 < cubexyz> back in the late 1980s microsoft was targetting programmers with their literature 13:29 < cubexyz> Universities were using Sun4's and I saw the odd Next computer 13:46 < cubexyz> getting error 503 backend fetch failed on tuxmachine.org 13:46 < cubexyz> tuxmachines.org 14:03 < schestowitz> [18:46] tuxmachines.org 17:23 < cubexyz> people are so inflexible 17:23 < cubexyz> if a fist came out of the screen and punched them in the face they'd still use windows 17:24 < cubexyz> must be quite an operation pirating windows 10 17:25 < cubexyz> better by far to use linux or bsd 17:26 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Not really, same KMS spoofing as ever. 15:53 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 14:50 < cubexyz> more evidence on the importance of Unix v7: 14:51 < cubexyz> Scott NcNealy worked at Onyx making micros running Unix 14:51 < cubexyz> McNealy 14:51 < cubexyz> of course he later co-founded Sun Microsystems 14:56 < cubexyz> in 1985 you could have bought a TRS-80 Model 16 and got TRS-Xenix 14:57 < cubexyz> the Onyx was $20K but the Model 16 was $4699 15:26 < cubexyz> no, no, no :) 15:27 < cubexyz> first, assemble computer from parts, then install funtoo :) 15:27 < cubexyz> no win10 to worry about 15:35 < cubexyz> ASUS had a barebook 15:36 < cubexyz> so no memory, no processor. no hard drive :) 15:40 < cubexyz> newegg was selling them but they seem to have disappeared 15:42 < cubexyz> not a laptop or tablet but you can order the ASUS barebone Mini PC 18:45 < cubexyz> more like Lex Luthor than a hero I'd say 18:48 < cubexyz> coroporate morgul then 18:48 < cubexyz> no shortage of those 18:50 < cubexyz> what, hungary has hyperinflation? 18:51 < cubexyz> ah right 12:40 < cubexyz> well, really Unix should have spread faster than it did 12:42 < cubexyz> Unix v6 came out in 1975 and then the John Lion's book in 1976 12:44 < cubexyz> Microsoft would have been in it's infancy... selling BASIC interpreters for Altair 8800 12:47 < cubexyz> so what happened? 12:48 < cubexyz> well in 1979 the lawyers for AT&T rescinded their permission for John Lion's book to be published 12:48 < cubexyz> and in those days, what would you run Unix on? 12:49 < cubexyz> PDP-11 or Vax 12:49 < cubexyz> later on there was microvax... 12:51 < cubexyz> ok, so after that there was TRS-Xenix (closed) for TRS-80 Model 16 in 1983 12:51 < cubexyz> sort of affordable 12:52 < cubexyz> Minix appeared in 1987 12:53 < cubexyz> primitive, but you got source code, and it was based in Unix v7 12:53 < cubexyz> then the early Linuxes start to appear: SLS, MCC, Yggdrasil, etc, etc in 1992 12:54 < cubexyz> Darkstar 0.99 in 1994 was used by Ryerson Polytechnical 12:56 < cubexyz> big time intellectual inertia, I'm sorry to say, lead to Radio Shack bundling windows with their Tandy systems 12:59 < cubexyz> anyways, there was a long time where other operating systems were available 13:02 < cubexyz> the 1975/1976 era you could easily get the mag tapes for unix with source 13:05 < cubexyz> microsoft was bundling msdos with commodore PCs in the early 1990s 13:06 < cubexyz> so the bundling of windows with PCs didn't start immediately when windows appeared, it took a few years 13:08 < cubexyz> the big stupidity of the OEMs was agreeing to making the number of ms-dos licenses equal to the number of PCs sold 13:13 < cubexyz> so if you really want to avoid the windows tax there's chromebooks/chromeboxes or ASUS barebook for laptops (if you can find them) 18:28 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/windows-solution-meme.jpg 18:28 < cubexyz> funny! 20:47 < cubexyz> ok, massive failures today 20:48 < cubexyz> UPS is kaput, have to buy a new one or at least new batteries 14:17 < cubexyz> windows was always garbage... people seem to have short memories 14:18 < cubexyz> the old tired refrain: "the next version will be better" never comes true 14:18 < XRevan86> cubexyz: People acclimate to the stench. 14:22 < cubexyz> yeah :) 14:26 < cubexyz> on the other end of the scale I still see messages from people using BL3 on a HP OmniBook 5700 14:28 < cubexyz> so they used IDE-to-SD adapters, trying to keep the old laptop working 14:29 < cubexyz> that would have a rather severe memory constraint, I think it originally had 32 megs of ram 14:30 < cubexyz> upgradeable to 128 megs 16:24 < cubexyz> shouldn't be too hard to find some DVDs 16:24 < cubexyz> they were released in Australia and the UK also 16:27 < cubexyz> must have run longer than I remember if there's 20 DVDs worth 16:28 < cubexyz> ah, 5 seasons 17:44 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has left #techrights ["Leaving"] 17:45 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 18:31 < cubexyz> bah 18:32 < cubexyz> we'll see what happens with slackware 18:32 < cubexyz> if there is a systemdogeddon then it's trueos or openbsd time 18:32 < MinceR> cubexyz: why not NetBSD? 18:33 < cubexyz> sure 18:33 < cubexyz> if I ever do bsd on amiga then for sure it will be NetBSD :) 18:34 < cubexyz> I got the old BL3, FC1, Vector, tons of stuff 18:35 < cubexyz> I don't hate GPL 18:35 < cubexyz> I'm one of those BSD and Linux people 18:36 < cubexyz> Linux is the more interesting desktop 18:37 < cubexyz> but _if_ it all goes systemd or otherwise crap then it's BSD time 18:37 < cubexyz> so far that hasn't happened 18:39 < cubexyz> plan9 seems kind of dead these days 18:41 < cubexyz> and I'm going to want 32-bit support for my old computers 18:45 < cubexyz> omnibook with 32 megs of ram ain't going to run systemd :) 18:47 < cubexyz> I'm pleased to hear you didn't gtive up on slack 19:01 < cubexyz> I compile from source anyways, especially on old linux 19:03 < cubexyz> the head from the CPU keeps us warm in the winter 19:03 < cubexyz> heat 19:04 < XRevan86> cubexyz: True, I heard some scary stories about cold Russian winters. 19:05 < cubexyz> Ubuntu minimum requirements: 2 ghz processor and 2 gigs of ram, lol 19:05 < cubexyz> wow, how do they make it so lean? 19:06 < XRevan86> cubexyz: GNOME 19:06 < cubexyz> I tried alpine, I forget what the problem was with it 19:10 < cubexyz> openbsd or netbsd then 19:11 < cubexyz> the base install is pretty minimal, way more minimal than most linuxes 19:13 < cubexyz> oh yeah I remember now 19:13 < cubexyz> I couldn't get X11 working on the celeron box, it had some crappy on-board video 19:13 < cubexyz> when I tried alpine 19:15 < cubexyz> many types of hell 19:15 < cubexyz> there's Dell Hell... 19:15 < cubexyz> and also DLL Hell :) 19:16 < cubexyz> it's time for MinceOS :) 19:16 < cubexyz> you can do it 19:19 < cubexyz> netbsd is in line with my kind of thinking... focusing on protability across many computer architectures 19:20 < cubexyz> portability 19:25 < cubexyz> you can run openbsd in less than 10 gigs of hard drive space 19:25 < XRevan86> cubexyz: That's… not that impressive. 19:27 < cubexyz> that's with all the X11 development stuff, firefox, and some other stuff 19:27 < cubexyz> yeah it could be smaller 19:27 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Still sounds like something in the range from 0.5G to 1.5G 19:28 < cubexyz> what's the smallest hard drive these days? 19:28 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I have 20G stacked somewhere. 19:29 < cubexyz> and it runs fine on 256 megs of ram 19:29 < cubexyz> I know, that could be smaller too... and I've done that also :) 19:29 < XRevan86> cubexyz: With Firefox? I'm having suspicions about the version of Firefox now :) 19:30 < cubexyz> firefox is on there but I don't bother running it 19:30 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Are you sure it's not NetSurf with an altered icon? :D 19:30 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Without Firefox that's also not very impressive %) 19:31 < cubexyz> firefox 3.0.18 it is 19:31 < cubexyz> I do have KDE 3 actually 19:35 < cubexyz> I did a linux on a 486 with 16 megs of ram 19:36 < cubexyz> but the 486 had this built-in monitor that failed 19:41 < XRevan86> cubexyz: There are still some very weird niche distros that can run in 16M with the kernel %) 19:42 < cubexyz> I tried slitaz, yes 19:44 < cubexyz> i'm sure slitaz would still support 32-bit 20:18 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It took 1.7G :) 21:50 < cubexyz> XRevan86, really it's only: 21:51 < cubexyz> 1.4 gigs actually used 21:51 < cubexyz> maybe a little more 21:55 < cubexyz> the hard drive is a Samsung SV0761D 21:56 < cubexyz> so that is a 7.6 gig hard drive 22:03 < cubexyz> late 1990's drive maybe 17:23 < cubexyz> firefox and chrome seem to rule the roost these days 17:24 < cubexyz> census taking, banking, online tv, it all works with firefox and chrome 17:24 < cubexyz> as you say, the banks probably don't bother testing any other web browsers 17:26 < cubexyz> ok, I just checked my bank's policy 17:27 < cubexyz> they support: IE, Edge, Firefox, Safari and Chrome 17:28 < cubexyz> I did my taxes on firefox 17:31 < cubexyz> IE is on the way out 17:32 < cubexyz> there's been a huge shift in the last 10 years 17:35 < cubexyz> go back another 10 years, netscape navigator ruled 17:36 < cubexyz> go back to 1994 it was Mosaic 17:37 < cubexyz> it wasn't until around 1999 that IE started to take over 17:38 < cubexyz> the M$ dominance was between 1999 to 2010 or so 17:44 < cubexyz> well if you go back to redhat 6.1 it was netscape also 17:44 < cubexyz> http://maxhost.org/other/redhat-6.1.jpg 17:45 < cubexyz> and I think Xmosaic was FOSS back in the day 17:46 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: What the hell would you even browse with on those platforms? 17:47 < cubexyz> I'm not running redhat 6.1 now :) 17:48 < cubexyz> that was when LGP first started working on majesty gold 17:49 < cubexyz> I do experiment with Xmosaic though 17:50 < cubexyz> I remember using PLIP with lynx on 486 linux 17:51 < cubexyz> really old stuff you don't even bother running a web browser 17:52 < cubexyz> there was a gradually transition from tcp/ip stuff to web stuff 17:52 < cubexyz> gradual 17:55 < cubexyz> the old tcp/ip programs were BIND, sendmail, IRC, rlogin, telnet, nntp, gopher 17:56 < cubexyz> you can still use those on classic BSD like quasijarus if you really wanted to 18:01 < cubexyz> Sun4's had erwise which I'm sure no one remembers 18:01 < cubexyz> but it predated mosaic by a few months 18:04 < cubexyz> it was all Next and Unix in the beginning 18:06 < cubexyz> a bit of a pity the way computing went really 18:09 < cubexyz> although I thought things were worst back in 2000 with all the winprinter, winscanner crap 19:12 < cubexyz> mosaic + godzilla = mozilla 19:13 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/retro-mosaic-linux.png 19:20 < cubexyz> one nice thing about mosaic is it compiles in no time 19:20 < cubexyz> and the annotation feature is nice 20:06 < cubexyz> any lynx friendly web site should work fine 20:08 < cubexyz> mind you, I'm not advocating using mosaic, it's just a classic computing hobby 22:58 < schestowitz> cubexyz: nice classics 00:01 < cubexyz> people need to be shown that computing != M$ 00:01 < cubexyz> microsoft is mainly a marketer 00:02 < cubexyz> so I think showing the history of Unix & Linux and web browsers is important 00:04 < cubexyz> mosaic is the grandparent of firefox 00:05 < cubexyz> redhat 6.1 isn't really that old 00:06 < cubexyz> oct 1999, doesn't seem that long ago to me 00:13 < cubexyz> looking at the source code of mosaic is a good way to learn about X Toolkit and openmotif 00:26 < cubexyz> http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0099.html 18:52 < cubexyz> ok, had to replace the UPS battery 18:52 < cubexyz> very overdue 19:08 < cubexyz> XRevan86, remember that html you helped me with? 19:08 < XRevan86> cubexyz: ja 19:08 < cubexyz> it seems the tag doesn't work, I have to use
19:09 < cubexyz> doesn't seem to allow for Canadian/British spelling of centre 19:09 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Yes, it really doesn't %). 19:10 < cubexyz> and yet in KDE it is kolourpaint, not kolorpaint 19:10 < cubexyz> is it? What are we supposed to use instead? 19:11 < XRevan86> cubexyz: CSS 19:11 < cubexyz> think about us poor mosaic users :) 19:12 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Upgrade to lynx :P 19:14 < cubexyz> it is stupid 19:24 < cubexyz> https is usually unnecessary 19:24 < XRevan86> cubexyz: BTW, the nginx's page for status codes uses
19:24 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Think of the Usonians 19:24 < XRevan86> cubexyz: they use Comcast 19:25 < cubexyz> I'm forced to use https for ebay self-hosting 19:26 < cubexyz> yeah, and no one will use ftp either 19:26 < XRevan86> cubexyz: So, HTTPS is needed even for basic stuff 19:27 < cubexyz> I figured (wrongly) that since a Brit invented www that British spelling would be allowed 19:27 < cubexyz> ok, I guess that makes sense 19:28 < cubexyz> I've also seen expired domains change to ads 19:29 < XRevan86> cubexyz: That's squatting, a different issue. 19:31 < cubexyz> I'm not sure it's cybersquatting exactly 19:32 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Do you mean, when first level domain owners put ads on expired domains? 19:32 < cubexyz> yeah 19:33 < cubexyz> I think it's the dns server that does that 19:33 < XRevan86> cubexyz: oh 19:34 < cubexyz> or maybe the name server? I'm not sure 19:34 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Is there a difference? 19:35 < cubexyz> sometimes a name server maybe be called a dns server as well 19:37 < cubexyz> just to address the
thing again, if I set page style to "no style" I think that nullifies all the CSS stuff 19:37 < cubexyz> I may have used no style, then the CSS centering was turned off 19:38 < cubexyz> ok, and my DNS1 and DNS2 is controlled by tech savvy, not me 19:39 < cubexyz> so if they do any funny stuff it's outside my control 19:40 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Centring is technically styling, so that makes sense, no? :) 19:46 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Bonan nokton. 19:47 < cubexyz> XRevan86, right, I don't self-host DNS 19:50 < cubexyz> XRevan86, my interesting in things like mosaic is of a programmatic nature 19:50 < cubexyz> since it uses Xt and motif 16:03 < cubexyz> I would have recommended the same thing in a broader context: 16:03 < cubexyz> don't use Microsoft technology 16:04 < cubexyz> they are nasty predators and so is Oracle 16:06 < cubexyz> yes, Paul Allen and Gates were stealing Xerox computer time in 1969 at U of Washington 16:07 < cubexyz> also stole PDP-10 computer time from Computer Center Corp to write BASIC 16:07 < cubexyz> PC1 BIOS stolen from Kildall's CP/M BIOS... 16:09 < cubexyz> the sockets layer? Berkeley sockets 16:09 < cubexyz> Kerberos? Microsoft's version was incompatible with MIT's 16:10 < cubexyz> DNS was Berkeley as well 16:12 < cubexyz> the M$ dominance really shouldn't have happened, it's a botch-up 17:22 < cubexyz> well we were trying to move away from intel CPUs 17:24 < cubexyz> that's because it is a broad generalization.... 17:24 < cubexyz> "black people" are not black, they are various shades of brown 17:24 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I am not able to see it even as that. 17:26 < cubexyz> MinceR, it's all one species... 17:27 < cubexyz> what about white-eyed, orange coloured people? :) 17:27 < cubexyz> and white people who stayed in the tanning salon too long 17:27 < cubexyz> so it's all stupid 17:36 < cubexyz> phrenology was discredited 17:36 < cubexyz> and pretty much all the Nazi ideas were wrong 17:37 < XRevan86> cubexyz: That didn't stop the Flat Earth movement. 17:37 < cubexyz> ugh, that thing just will not stop reappearing 17:38 < cubexyz> It makes me question the rationality of humans 17:39 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Humans are like computer neural networks (it's the other way around though :)). 17:39 < XRevan86> cubexyz: They show really well how humans learn things. 17:39 < MinceR> 11 233624 < cubexyz> and pretty much all the Nazi ideas were wrong 17:39 < cubexyz> I knew about the curvature of the Earth when I was 12 17:40 < cubexyz> look at the CN Tower from 60 miles away, it looks like it's partially embedded in Lake Ontario 17:42 < cubexyz> Flat earthers are just beyond the pale though 17:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: They are a fringe case though. 17:46 < cubexyz> as long as your misconceptions are gradually corrected over time there is no problem 17:47 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I was thinking of misconceptions that float around in the society. 17:47 < cubexyz> well it depends really 17:48 < cubexyz> some delusions could be delusions for good, like a little kid's belief in Santa Claus 17:48 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Those are still like a loaded gun 17:48 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Should be kept under control. 17:50 < cubexyz> well there's... what's the best way to call it... indoctrination 17:50 < cubexyz> all children are subjected to it 17:50 < cubexyz> it could be good, it could be bad 17:51 < cubexyz> a belief system that is just accepted "because I say so" 17:51 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Indeed, that's pretty much unavoidable. 17:53 < cubexyz> we have that via Microsoft and Apple :) 17:53 < cubexyz> unfortunately it is the bad kind 17:54 < cubexyz> that's right 17:54 < cubexyz> A gradual realization over time.. as the subject becomes more knowledgeable 17:56 < cubexyz> well how do you confirm anything for starters... 17:56 < cubexyz> very problematic 17:57 < cubexyz> I don't think there's anything too bad about certain types of moral training 17:58 < cubexyz> little kids are not automatically moral 17:58 < cubexyz> you have to learn it 17:58 < XRevan86> cubexyz: They are empathical though. 17:58 < cubexyz> I'll stay on the EarthSphere thanks :) 17:59 < cubexyz> because you know there is night and day (rolls eyes) 18:00 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Isn't it Ra just being very punctual with his chores? 18:00 < cubexyz> that's the guy with a falcon head isn't it? :) 18:02 < cubexyz> actually worshipping the sun has a certain logic to it 18:02 < cubexyz> because you know, you need the sun :) 18:02 < MinceR> cubexyz: but don't pray to the Sun. pray to Joe Pesci! 18:04 < cubexyz> haha 18:05 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Can I worship my brain? :) 18:05 < cubexyz> not Solipsism I hope 18:05 < XRevan86> cubexyz: No, I mean in a practical way :) 18:06 < cubexyz> and oxygen :) 18:07 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Time to worship water. 18:09 < cubexyz> I'll sell you oxygenated water for only $9.99 a litre :) 18:42 < cubexyz> I was going to give Akiba Rubinstein as an example of a Russian Jew, but then I realized he was Polish 18:42 < cubexyz> interesting case though 18:44 < XRevan86> cubexyz: The surname is stereotypically Jewish, so… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubinstein 18:46 < cubexyz> Mikhail Botvinnik then 18:47 < cubexyz> sepia tone :) 18:48 < cubexyz> I think some people still use that actually 18:48 < cubexyz> although nowadays it's simulated 20:34 < schestowitz> [23:44] cubexyz: The surname is stereotypically Jewish, so… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubinstein 20:43 < cubexyz> I wanted to say that I thought UEFI was a red herring in some ways 20:44 < cubexyz> anyone with some skill can run coreboot and do their own BIOS verification 20:44 < cubexyz> and if you really want to be sure get a socketed bios 20:45 < cubexyz> now if something is baked into the CPU, that's a bigger problem 20:47 < cubexyz> it's not easy... but you just have to be careful with the hardware you buy 20:53 < cubexyz> I thought the Vista ads were funny though 20:53 < cubexyz> totally planned obsolescence of course 21:02 < cubexyz> hard to believe win7 is already over 8 years old now 21:14 < cubexyz> archive.org to the rescue? :) 21:26 < cubexyz> I'm not sure if my first web site got archived 21:26 < cubexyz> it goes back to 1996 21:33 < cubexyz> my original ISP is long gone too 21:39 < cubexyz> the dates were recorded... so I know my site history 21:44 < cubexyz> URLs started to appear in the old cube-lovers mailing list in 1994 23:06 < cubexyz> DaemonFC, exactly so 23:07 < cubexyz> although I'll go farther: no version of windows was good 23:07 < cubexyz> win95 crashes all the time, windows 2.0 was slow 23:07 < cubexyz> crappy as far back as I can remember 23:09 < cubexyz> that's why I wondered why more people didn't run freebsd 2.0 back in 1995 23:09 < cubexyz> I was trying to sell the CD's but no one bought them :-/ 23:11 < cubexyz> I thought Xenix was OK earlier on... late 1980s, not ideal of course, but at least it didn't crash 23:12 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Xenix took more resources than DOS did and didn't run DOS/Windows programs. 23:14 < cubexyz> there was SCO VP/ix 23:14 < cubexyz> it emulated a 8086 XT... it wasn't perfect but you could use it 23:15 < cubexyz> there were tons of modems that weren't winmodems 23:16 < cubexyz> in the late 1990s yes, the winmodems started to be a real problem 23:17 < cubexyz> but there was the US robotics sportster.. with hayes command set 23:17 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: They were VERY cheap and they got tossed into a lot of PCs for exactly that reason. 23:17 < cubexyz> yeah I remember those 23:18 < cubexyz> I can't remember now exactly how good early FreeBSD was, but I definitely remember using Darkstar Linux 0.99 without any problem 23:19 < cubexyz> but I do know a lot of early ISPs were using some type of BSD and some still do to this day 23:20 < cubexyz> fortunately it doesn't seem that the DSL modems are win-only 23:22 < oiaohm> cubexyz: there are a few USB port only DSL modems that are win only but they are quite rare. 23:25 < cubexyz> before 1994, I can't say I remember seeing any linux or freebsd, everything seemed to appear around that time 23:25 < cubexyz> before that it was SunOS, HP-UX, Xenix, VMS 23:26 < cubexyz> of course in 1985 there was a lot of early excitement over the amiga 23:44 < cubexyz> I wonder what stores offer as an alternative to windows 10 23:44 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: They don't even call it the PC section at Best Buy anymore. 23:45 < cubexyz> yeah I think I remember retail box redhat, but it was quite a while ago 23:46 < cubexyz> well, best buy seems pretty useless 23:47 < cubexyz> oh yeah. canada computers sells Beeboxes 23:47 < cubexyz> so that's not _too_ bad 23:47 < cubexyz> you can get Ubuntu 15.04 or Fedora 23 23:48 < cubexyz> I guess Best Buy doesn't bother selling bare bones PCs then 02:27 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: Best Buy doesn't sell bare bones, but micro center does. 19:20 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I think my SSL stuff is too old on vector 19:20 < cubexyz> even after I updated links and lynx, I still can't even look at slashdot 19:21 < XRevan86> cubexyz: What about gnutls? 19:21 < cubexyz> openssl 0.9.8h 28 may 2008 19:22 < cubexyz> yup, that's the problem 19:35 < cubexyz> oh dear, I don't think I configured links correctly 19:36 < cubexyz> you have to enable ssl support 19:36 < cubexyz> I should really give vector the axe, but there's all that legacy stuff in there 19:37 < cubexyz> gcc-2.95 for majx, all the old loki games 19:37 < cubexyz> I'm not sure what will happen if I put new linux on there 19:39 < cubexyz> and the KDE 3.5.10 stuff... 19:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: What's majx? 19:44 < cubexyz> majesty gold, it's an LGP game 19:45 < cubexyz> http://cubeman.org/linuxsell.html.old 19:46 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I mean, you could try %) 19:48 < XRevan86> cubexyz: At least with some love put in :) 19:48 < cubexyz> no source for any of those though 19:49 < cubexyz> yeah I could use the slack box for testing 19:50 < cubexyz> but there's other stuff as well :-/ 19:50 < cubexyz> well, one step at a time 23:12 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 01:07 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 20:15 < cubexyz> XRevan86, looks like I managed to bork up my openssl 20:16 < cubexyz> still trying to sort it all out 20:17 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Fixing up Loki games on new GNU/Linux is arguably easier :). 20:18 < cubexyz> XRevan86, there is also the problem of losing all my KDE 3.5.10 development stuff 20:18 < cubexyz> I don't feel I can just wipe the drive 20:18 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Have you considered running the old Linux in a container? %) 20:19 < cubexyz> hmmm 20:23 < cubexyz> I'll settle for restoring the original openssl, curl, wget I think for now 20:23 < cubexyz> wget 20:23 < cubexyz> oops 20:28 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I'd love to run konsole KDE4 and konsole 3.5.10 simultaneously if possible 20:32 < XRevan86> cubexyz: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DebianInstall 20:35 < cubexyz> some Russian physicists were working on trinity for slackware 20:35 < cubexyz> don't know if they ever finished it 20:35 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Are you sure it wasn't a joke :D 20:39 < XRevan86> cubexyz: So why did you say "Russian physicists"? :) 20:42 < cubexyz> ok, I didn't realize that was a joke 20:43 < cubexyz> https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/desktop/13155187 20:43 < cubexyz> didn't seem like a joke though 20:43 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It definitely is :D 20:48 < cubexyz> well, I'm figuring out squashfs to fix my old ssl libs 20:49 < cubexyz> e.g., sudo mount -o loop -t squashfs usr.lzm /mnt/squash 20:52 < cubexyz> ok, curl is restored 20:54 < cubexyz> yeah, I'm not going to try to update openssl on this old linux any more 20:56 < cubexyz> breaking curl also breaks slapt-get 20:59 < XRevan86> cubexyz: There are been API changes in OpenSSL. 21:01 < cubexyz> I also don't like what happened to the framebuffer in linux 21:03 < cubexyz> well, after I tried compiling and installing the newer openssl I was getting undefined symbol problems all over the place 21:03 < cubexyz> it's just not worth it 21:04 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Yes, it isn't. 16:29 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/list-of-microsoft-jerks.txt 16:29 < cubexyz> anyways, it's microsoft that's getting knifed these days 16:30 < cubexyz> no one I know wants win10, and they are asking me for alternatives for when win7 expires 16:31 < cubexyz> I realize there are still lots of problems 16:31 < cubexyz> but between 2000 and now there's been a big improvement 16:34 < cubexyz> chromebook, beebox, novena (?), lemote, barebones laptops, none of those were available in 2000 16:35 < cubexyz> well, there will always be philosophical schisms 17:25 < cubexyz> M$ is ending extended support for win7 on jan 14th, 2020 which isn't far off 17:26 < cubexyz> so people like us have to make good suggestions for alternatives 17:32 < cubexyz> some beeboxes come with Ubuntu or Fedora or Arch 17:32 < cubexyz> unfortunately the 'hard drive' is a 32gb eMMC 17:38 < cubexyz> uh, if zorin and arch both have systemd, then the answer is no 17:38 < cubexyz> but you can get barebones beebox which is blank 17:41 < cubexyz> I don't know of anything that comes preloaded with BSD off the top of my head 17:42 < cubexyz> re: beebox it could the usual problem of no drivers 17:42 < cubexyz> but I don't think putting slackware on beebox would be any problem 17:46 < cubexyz> nowadays I type "no os" and see what pops up 17:49 < cubexyz> there's MSI Cubi, ASUS Vivomini, Intel NUC, Gigabyte Brix, Zotac ZBOX and Shuttle mini 17:52 < cubexyz> well if you want a safer choice that I've actually checked then it's chromebook/chromebox 17:54 < cubexyz> gigabyte's stuff is probably safe, they cooperate well with the coreboot people 18:27 < cubexyz> ummm 18:31 < cubexyz> ok, I know that AMD and VIA cooperate more with coreboot 18:31 < cubexyz> also it's worth looking at the FSF stuff they run: 18:31 < cubexyz> https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems 18:33 < cubexyz> unfortunately the technoethical D16 is very expensive 18:34 < cubexyz> also there is linutop: 18:34 < cubexyz> http://www.linutop.com/index.en.html 18:38 < cubexyz> not sure 18:38 < cubexyz> there's always a time factor for the coreboot people to figure out all the technical stuff 16:49 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 19:08 < cubexyz> came up with a solution to the SSL problem on links & lynx 19:08 < cubexyz> now I just ssh into one of the newer computers and run newer links from the old computer 19:12 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Doesn't sound like a solution :) 19:12 < cubexyz> good enough 19:17 < cubexyz> imagine how slow running modern firefox would be on a P3 19:18 < cubexyz> may as well just keep the box as it is 19:18 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I'd probably try Falkon there. 20:31 < cubexyz> XRevan86, I'm not sure how a raspberry pi would compare to a P3 800 mhz 20:32 < cubexyz> I think the pi had not so good I/O bandwidth 20:52 < cubexyz> also I got this ancient scanner with an ISA controller card 20:52 < cubexyz> can't just give the P3 the heave-ho 17:53 < cubexyz> there were more female programmers in the 1980s 17:54 < cubexyz> too many misogynists 17:55 < cubexyz> too many misogynists _nowadays_ I should say 17:55 < cubexyz> of course it still existed before, but it's worse now 17:59 < cubexyz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism_in_video_gaming 20:55 < cubexyz> http://www.maxhost.org/other/microsoft-bugs-are-profitable.txt 18:39 < cubexyz> exactly so 18:40 < cubexyz> sometimes it's not even dogma but purely intellectual inertia or "go with the flow" mentality 18:40 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Indeed, but the crowd's opinion can change 19:13 < cubexyz> ha 00:39 < cubexyz> Microsoft Prison sounds ominous 00:51 < cubexyz> no it's fine 00:51 < cubexyz> after all, Microsoft put that recycler guy in prison 01:01 < cubexyz> lose your license key and M$ will make you buy a new license 01:02 < cubexyz> so in some ways users of M$'s software are "in prison" 18:15 < cubexyz> the idea behind Iron Man originally was Cold War/Fear of communism 18:15 < cubexyz> a bit past the "Red Scare" era in the United States, but still Americans were in "fight the commies" mode 18:18 < cubexyz> probably no one remembers, but one of Iron Man's foes was the Crimson Dynamo, Russia's answer to Iron Man 18:24 < cubexyz> I dimly remember the Soviet Super Soldiers from the early 1980s :) 18:26 < cubexyz> one guy turned into a giant bear 18:37 < cubexyz> eh, it was a long time ago 18:39 < cubexyz> oh yeah, Vanguard was another one 19:42 < cubexyz> what is a crybully? 19:42 < cubexyz> someone who complains all the time? 06:39 < cubexyz> wow, I can seek with the mouse in mplayer? 06:39 < cubexyz> didn't know that 06:41 < cubexyz> man this old CRT is really dim :-/ 07:02 < schestowitz> cubexyz: I had one that went dimmed 07:04 < cubexyz> this particular CRT is 2003 07:06 < cubexyz> not quite, dec 2003 :) 07:19 < oiaohm> cubexyz: at 15 years old you could be running to the end of the guns in the tube. 18:36 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I know monitors can last a long time 18:37 < cubexyz> my amiga 1080 (I think) is nov 1985 18:37 < cubexyz> although I probably turn it on once or twice a year 20:46 < oiaohm> cubexyz: lcd/crt/led monitors all have a fixed number of hours of operations before key parts will without question die. 20:46 < oiaohm> cubexyz: crt get dimmer and dimmer before the guns stop. 21:08 < cubexyz> I wonder how well an early thinkpad would work today 21:09 < cubexyz> like a 700, first released in oct 1992 21:09 < cubexyz> I owned a 380z in 1998 :) 21:12 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I think with LCD's they are rated for 60,000 hours 21:12 < cubexyz> so 20 years if you run it 8 hours per day 04:39 < cubexyz> it's still dubious and he definitely didn't deserve jail time 08:42 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I would say jail time is inside the cards as right. When you consider when selling machines second hand having what looks like the real installation discs can double the sales price at times. 08:47 < oiaohm> cubexyz: schestowitz its not the first case either globally. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2082455/Comet-sued-Microsoft-chain-sold-94-000-counterfeit-Windows-recovery-discs-customers.html 19:05 < cubexyz> oiaohm, jail time is just silly 19:06 < cubexyz> my understanding is that you would need a license key to use the recovery disc 19:08 < cubexyz> making them look like original discs was stupid though 19:11 < cubexyz> plus Lundgren was caught in a sting operation 19:12 < cubexyz> very stupid on Lundgren's part, very sleazy on Microsoft's part 19:32 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the bad part is some recovery discs are not keyless but have OEM volume key in them. 19:40 < oiaohm> cubexyz: making them look like original discs OEM vendors sell to customers for a price was really stupid. 19:46 < oiaohm> cubexyz: OEM discs are not always keyless and that is where problem starts. Recovery discs intented to be user made if the bios license key is dud and OEM knows key can be in recovery image the machine makes as it is legally a backup for that machine. 19:47 < oiaohm> cubexyz: Microsoft did send out emails about this to registered partners and higher.warning about it. 19:50 < oiaohm> cubexyz: XRevan86 http://www.dell.com/support/home/au/en/aubsd1/drivers/osiso/wt64a Please note this that you have to enter the machines service tag with dell before downloading recovery image. 19:52 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I don't use windows at all personally 19:52 < oiaohm> cubexyz: XRevan86 that entering service tag is that the disc might contain a key. The service tag will set what image you get. 19:52 < cubexyz> really I find it pretty awful 19:52 < cubexyz> the fact is that M$ will screw you hard if you replace the motherboard and lose your license key 19:54 < oiaohm> cubexyz: Windows is down right horrible with all these finer points. 19:55 < cubexyz> slackware is my go to OS these days 19:55 < cubexyz> but I'm going to give TrueOS a try soon 19:57 < cubexyz> shouldn't the driver check the hardware first? 19:57 < cubexyz> then default to VESA mode, seems like an easy solution 19:57 < oiaohm> cubexyz: you are dealing with OEM who make defective bioses and other things. 19:58 < oiaohm> cubexyz: what should be done and what is done is two very different things. 20:01 < cubexyz> and those thermistors aren't very accurate 20:01 < cubexyz> it's bad engineering really 20:02 < cubexyz> there's tons of fanless chromebooks that manage not to overheat all the time 20:03 < cubexyz> and my P3 coppermine _never_ overheats 20:04 < cubexyz> i've never seen it go above 40 C 20:05 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/13/google-hp-pull-chromebook-on-overheating-issues.html%G This is ODM/OEM for you they had managed even to make dud chromebooks. But unlike dud windows machines the chromebooks have got recalls. 20:05 < cubexyz> but that's very common.... lots of P3's survived, I got a room full of them 20:07 < cubexyz> 2013, ok 20:07 < cubexyz> I don't have any chromebooks that old so I assume it was corrected 20:09 < cubexyz> yes, I'm still waiting for my android support 20:09 < cubexyz> G4 EE 20:12 < cubexyz> slackware/vector at least tries to support older computers 20:12 < cubexyz> and they managed to get it to fit on 1 CD which was nice 20:14 < cubexyz> oiaohm, the %G suffix seems superfluous 20:14 < cubexyz> but I was able to use the link after I removed it 20:15 < cubexyz> maybe it's this old xchat :) 20:15 < oiaohm> cubexyz: that was me coping wrong. 20:16 < cubexyz> hmmm, the hp chromebook 11 which is what I have 20:16 < cubexyz> the charger does get a bit warm when it's charging, but so far no problems 20:18 < oiaohm> cubexyz: dud and find are released under the same name. 20:18 < oiaohm> cubexyz: recalled and fixed and shipped out again. 07:45 < cubexyz> bl 18:34 < cubexyz> you can't trust Lenovo 18:35 < cubexyz> everybody forgot superfish already? 18:36 < cubexyz> will AMI give you BIOS source code.... of course not 19:58 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://ami.com/en/news/press-releases/american-megatrends-statement-on-bios-security-compromise-via-unnamed-taiwan-vendor-ftp-site/ this is when you start really questioning. 19:59 < oiaohm> cubexyz: AMI will give you the source code if you sign NDA with them and are making hardware. 20:00 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I asked them, it's $10K at least 20:00 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I have seen to got for nothing for review when the project is worth 100000 AUD. 20:01 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so size of project and possible income to them does come into it as well. 20:02 < oiaohm> cubexyz: question how many black hackers have got into vendor data and have the source code anyhow is a big one. 20:02 < cubexyz> I've got IBM PC, XT, 286, and various other bioses 20:03 < cubexyz> oiaohm, which is nonsense due to fragrant overreach by extending copyright to ridiculous lenghts 20:04 < cubexyz> what's next, I can't hexedit the bios? :) 20:05 < cubexyz> obviously that won't fly 20:07 < oiaohm> cubexyz: we are past the point where hexediting someone else firmware and supplying it could be court case. 20:08 < cubexyz> except computers have read and write operations... 20:10 < cubexyz> I don't even want the UEFI stuff really 20:10 < oiaohm> cubexyz: yes fair usage you have to supply a patch that the end user applies themselves. 20:10 < cubexyz> it's tons and tons of obfuscated bullshit 20:13 < cubexyz> I think stuff like Sun Ultra 10 is probably OK 20:16 < cubexyz> and Tiano is missing chunks if I remember right 20:16 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279423520_SLIM_A_Language_for_Microcode_Description_and_Simulation_in_VLSI most people don't know where cpu microcode comes from. 1981 darpa project. 20:17 < cubexyz> it was Kildall who invented BIOS 20:18 < cubexyz> everybody seems to forget that 20:21 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I think all the PDP-11s were microprogrammed 20:22 < cubexyz> except for the very first one, the PDP-11/20 20:27 < oiaohm> cubexyz: not exactly. http://www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-60startpage.html Its a little latter. But this is microcode controlled by the end user configured from the stock instruction set. 20:27 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the darpa one is where it turns into the modern day black box. 20:28 < cubexyz> PDP-11/60 allowed the user to write their own microcode 20:28 < cubexyz> now that's a computer 20:30 < cubexyz> that's the first time I've seen the PDP-11/60 20:32 < cubexyz> IBM S/360 had Initial Microprogram load or IPL 20:34 < cubexyz> how so? 20:35 < cubexyz> not open I guess 20:36 < cubexyz> yes, that's a good point 20:38 < cubexyz> IBM had an oddball computer called the IBM XT/370 20:39 < cubexyz> ran PC DOS, worked as a 3270 terminal and could execute S/370 instructions locally 20:43 < cubexyz> actually if you look at the history of computers from say the PDP-11/20 (1969) onwards, users have less and less control of the computer 20:43 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the fun of playing around with old custom government hardware. 20:44 < cubexyz> I'd rather play around on a IBM 4341 20:44 < oiaohm> cubexyz: it was that old drive that made me aware of mil effects on hardware. 20:45 < oiaohm> cubexyz: those drives were X australian militrary signals. So they were ultra high density that no off the shelf version of drive would read for so called security. 20:45 < cubexyz> 16 megs of ram, now people scoff and say you can't do anything with that 21:06 < cubexyz> well you see I want to still use my older computers 21:07 < cubexyz> that means I have to minimalize memory usage 21:08 < cubexyz> or at least not be forced to run ever more bloated software 21:10 < cubexyz> I'm not even sure what is detritus and what is essential in 2.2 never mind modern linux 21:13 < cubexyz> zaurus SL-5500 had a 64 meg memory space 21:15 < cubexyz> that was a 2.4 actually 21:24 < cubexyz> a few years ago I wrote a script to remove unload a bunch of modules I don't use 21:25 < cubexyz> bluetooth, nfsd, acpi_cpufreq, speedstep_lib, shpchp, 3c59x and sysv 21:25 < cubexyz> I'm not hot plugging PCI cards 21:34 < cubexyz> I think BL3 only loaded ppp, slhc, ne, and 8390.. simple 01:39 < MinceR> 23 003637 < cubexyz> everybody forgot superfish already? 23:50 < cubexyz> made a small adjustment to apache to turn off access to manual pages 23:50 < cubexyz> various IPs were banging on them continuously 03:47 < cubexyz> what about 'magna cum laude'? 03:47 < cubexyz> would that get auto-corrected? 03:47 < XRevan86> cubexyz: eble 03:48 < cubexyz> magna cum laude just means "with great distinction" 03:48 < cubexyz> e.g. he graduated magna cum laude 03:53 < cubexyz> esperanto again? 03:53 < cubexyz> I think 03:54 < XRevan86> cubexyz: jes 03:56 < cubexyz> sure, let me type into google translate and I'm good to go :) 04:17 < cubexyz> well some of the greybeards were talking about top 04:17 < cubexyz> so there's a schism between the Unix top and Linux top 04:18 < cubexyz> so I started thinking about that 15:57 < cubexyz> found the ancestor of top 15:57 < cubexyz> dpy from the v6 era 16:09 < cubexyz> in fact it seems there's an older one that dates from the nsys era 16:44 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Nice name 16:44 < XRevan86> cubexyz: For a moment I thought you're talking about Display *dpy :). 16:47 < cubexyz> I'm not sure why they called it that in this case 16:48 < cubexyz> probably the same reason, dpy = display the system status 17:05 < cubexyz> I'm not even sure v6 could use -> 17:17 < cubexyz> this is BBN V6 :-/ 17:18 < cubexyz> that is later... like 1979 17:18 < cubexyz> the cool thing is that BBN V6 had tcp/ip 17:18 < cubexyz> so very early unix tcp/ip 17:26 < cubexyz> ok, v6 does have the -> operator 17:38 < cubexyz> anyways, I'm stuck now... BBN v6 has extra stuff baseline v6 doesn't have 17:48 < cubexyz> ok, just wondering why the heck anyone would walk down the street with an AR-15 in the first place 17:49 < XRevan86> cubexyz: The idea is that this is completely legal. 17:51 < cubexyz> ummm 17:52 < cubexyz> when did that start I wonder 17:54 < cubexyz> also why is the dude lying right on the road? 17:54 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Well, he was told to lie down under a gun point. 17:56 < cubexyz> evidently not legal in Hawaii and not in Illinois 17:57 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Lying on roads? 17:57 < cubexyz> no, not legal to buy AR-15 I think 17:58 < cubexyz> so if it is legal then .... why the cuffs? 17:59 < XRevan86> cubexyz: I didn't understand, to be honest :) 18:15 < cubexyz> hey, why stop there... carry a loaded AR-15 but also wear a mask and body armor 18:15 < cubexyz> and also a camera for youtube purposes :) 18:35 < cubexyz> I think I used to have ACS300 18:36 < cubexyz> big bulky thing 19:09 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: I ordered a vlarger capacity SD card for my phone. Now I can consider taking my library along with me in FLAC. 19:20 < cubexyz> 128k bit is good enough for me 19:37 < cubexyz> I think OTA TV uses mpeg-2 still 19:37 < cubexyz> and DVDs I think 21:08 < cubexyz> did everyone see this: 21:08 < cubexyz> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock_autopsy/ 21:08 < cubexyz> says that Murdock had an electrical cord around his neck 21:12 < cubexyz> I didn't know about the drinking 21:12 < cubexyz> always seems like a bad idea 22:31 < schestowitz> cubexyz: yes, seen it all before 22:40 < DaemonFC> cubexyz: He hung himself with a cord from a vacuum cleaner. Old news. 22:40 < cubexyz> ah 22:44 < cubexyz> I'm surprised really 19:46 < cubexyz> KDE 3.5.10 alters the gamma settings of the X server 19:46 < cubexyz> other WM's don't appear to do that 19:47 < cubexyz> so xgamma -gamma 1.0 will set red, green and blue to 1.0 19:47 < cubexyz> KDE sets everyting to 1.4 19:48 < cubexyz> now exactly where it does it is a mystery 19:50 < cubexyz> I'm a bit disappointed in KDE 4, which is probably old news by now 19:52 < cubexyz> slackware doesn't use KDE Plasma 5 or whatever they call it now 19:58 < cubexyz> you can stick Gamma 1.0 in Section "Monitor" in Xorg.conf 19:59 < cubexyz> ah, not capitalized actually 20:05 < cubexyz> it used to be called XF86Config 20:12 < cubexyz> I wonder when the whole conf thing started 20:13 < cubexyz> it seems kind of modern... v7 didn't have that 20:18 < cubexyz> I'd say X feels rather disharmonious (the product of many aggregations) but really everything is like that 20:41 < cubexyz> that AT&T lawsuit really borked up unix 20:41 < cubexyz> it's not appealing at all to run Unix without source code 20:43 < cubexyz> and Bell Labs didn't carry the ball after 1989... Unix v10 was the last of the bell labs Unixes 20:45 < cubexyz> heck, it's even possible the BSDs could disappear 20:46 < cubexyz> hopefully not... and there does seem to be new distros appearing and all that code isn't going to disappear 06:46 < cubexyz> I'm not worried about Linux 06:46 < cubexyz> win10 was trash and people are constantly complaining about it 18:10 < cubexyz> you can give Discovery Channel a miss 18:10 < XRevan86> cubexyz: ST:Discovery 18:10 < cubexyz> You can live without shows like "Finding Bigfoot" 18:11 < XRevan86> cubexyz: When will they know it's Elfs they should be looking for 18:11 < cubexyz> :) 18:13 < cubexyz> is not just elves: hoof -> hooves, shelf -> shelves 18:14 < XRevan86> cubexyz: gnomes 18:15 < cubexyz> doesn't end with an f 18:15 < XRevan86> cubexyz: They're pronounced "nowms" with the first sound omitted for simplification. 18:15 < cubexyz> knowmes 18:16 < cubexyz> double f, then just add s 18:18 < cubexyz> I forget why the g was added 18:19 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It was there from the start. 18:19 < cubexyz> gnome, gnu, gnarled... 18:20 < cubexyz> ah, I think it's from the Greek language 18:20 < cubexyz> english retained the spelling, but not the pronounciation 18:21 < cubexyz> ph and gn? 18:21 < cubexyz> and pt 18:22 < XRevan86> cubexyz: ? 18:24 < cubexyz> it's a greek thing: pterodactyl 18:24 < cubexyz> Greek pteron meaning wing + daktulos meaning finger 18:25 < cubexyz> XRevan86, there are two etymologies for the word 'gnome' 18:25 < cubexyz> one is latin, and one is greek 18:25 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Of different meanings too. 18:26 < cubexyz> but who knows which one 18:27 < cubexyz> ask a Phd in Linguistics 18:29 < cubexyz> how does russian handle elf and elves? 18:30 < cubexyz> http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/196.jpg 18:32 < cubexyz> ending in consonant, just add ы 18:36 < cubexyz> I think learning latin is probably a good idea 18:37 < cubexyz> a lot of scientific terms are in latin 18:38 < cubexyz> learning greek is probably also useful 18:38 < cubexyz> at least latin for botany and medicine 18:40 < cubexyz> I think Law, medicine, and language studies it's compulsory 18:43 < cubexyz> R.I.P. got englishized 18:44 < cubexyz> no one ever says "requiescat in pace" 18:44 < cubexyz> Rest in peace 18:45 < XRevan86> cubexyz: But isn't "in" a very Germanic thing? 18:47 < cubexyz> yeah there were early germanic settlers of Britain, so it's definitely possible 18:47 < cubexyz> Angles, Saxons and Jutes 18:47 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Um… 18:49 < cubexyz> early C language, I'm somewhat knowledgeable, early English not so much :) 18:50 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Let's just say English at its core a Germanic language with an extremely heavy baggage of Romance loan words. 18:51 < cubexyz> English does seem a lot different from German 18:52 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Freundschaft, friendship 18:53 < cubexyz> English is like 26% Germanic, 29% French and it's got some Latin and Greek and 10% who knows 18:56 < cubexyz> yes, Old English was developed from Germanic tribes 18:56 < cubexyz> but later on, it's far less so 18:57 < cubexyz> sure, there was the Norman Conquest in 1066 18:58 < cubexyz> I think so 18:58 < cubexyz> it must have had a big influence 18:58 < cubexyz> Old English didn't even use the Latin alphabet 18:59 < cubexyz> it was runic 18:59 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It did partly 18:59 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Romans tried to enforce it. 19:03 < cubexyz> well I'd have to look at some examples I think 19:03 < cubexyz> to me, old english is like 450-1066 A.D. 19:04 < cubexyz> middle english is 1066-1450 and then after that comes modern english 19:04 < cubexyz> so maybe runic english is even earlier, I'm not sure 19:06 < cubexyz> they were Anglo-Saxon runes, but maybe not everybody used them 19:06 < cubexyz> ok, that clarifies things a bit 19:59 < cubexyz> everyone seems to be doing the "updated privacy policy" thing 20:04 < oiaohm> cubexyz: really when you wake up that the EU changes come under common copyright law as well as EU special law it kind of makes sense. 20:05 < oiaohm> cubexyz: People forget under copyright law you are not allowed to damage a person future works by miss using information about their existing works. 22:19 < cubexyz> I have a suggestion for tuxmachines 22:20 < cubexyz> I recommend you moderate the comments since some (most) of them are just spam ads 22:21 < cubexyz> http://tuxmachines.org/node/71994 00:38 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 11:13 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 20:01 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 20:51 < cubexyz> I'm deleting techrights.org, so use techrights-2018.log instead 20:51 < cubexyz> some idiot is hammering on that file... downloaded it over 2,000 times 20:51 < cubexyz> 90% of my bandwidth :-/ 20:52 < cubexyz> no idea... except to be malicious 20:59 < cubexyz> lots of bad stuff is coming from RIPE Network Ip addresses 21:00 < cubexyz> may 15th, mr. 173.249.18.216 just downloaded the file over and over 21:02 < cubexyz> and they changed their agent string every time 21:03 < cubexyz> some script kiddie, well I'm blocking that ip address and the file is gone so that should be the end of it 21:05 < cubexyz> I wonder if apache has something to stop that kind of thing 22:17 < cubexyz> talking heads :) 22:20 < cubexyz> I always thought they sounded a bit british 22:20 < cubexyz> ah, born in Scotland 04:55 < schestowitz> [01:53] I'm deleting techrights.org, so use techrights-2018.log instead 04:55 < schestowitz> [01:53] some idiot is hammering on that file... downloaded it over 2,000 times 22:44 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: cubexyz, schestowitz_log, hl` 22:45 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cubexyz, schestowitz_log, hl` 00:53 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 03:12 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 14:50 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: cubexyz, aindilis 20:37 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 20:40 < cubexyz> oiaohm, KDE 4 konsole is greatly inferior to KDE 3.5.10 konsole 20:41 < cubexyz> I'm working on getting the older one working on newer linux 20:42 < cubexyz> an example of feature regression I'm sorry to say 23:41 < oiaohm> cubexyz: Some of it is the change to style sheets instead of user interface with konsole 4 https://docs.kde.org/stable5/en/applications/konsole/tabbarstylsheet.html 23:41 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I do agree step backwards. 23:51 < cubexyz> where does one put the stylesheet files? 23:54 < cubexyz> oiaohm, I used to be able to change encoding and move tabs around with the mouse 23:55 < cubexyz> ok, I can still change encoding... 23:55 < cubexyz> I guess part of it is learning the differences, but still it seems not as good as before 00:21 < oiaohm> cubexyz: please note I said some of it. There are some features that are just missing. 00:21 < oiaohm> cubexyz: some have come back in kde 5 and some are still missing. 06:10 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 08:42 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 15:30 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 00:17 < cubexyz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain 19:47 < cubexyz> possible acquisition, nothing is finalized as yet 19:47 < cubexyz> I'd rather google bought them instead 19:47 < XRevan86> cubexyz: It seems very likely. 19:50 < cubexyz> although google seems to be becoming more like Microsoft lately 19:50 < cubexyz> also, if M$ buys github will there still be free accounts I wonder 19:51 < XRevan86> cubexyz: Without the free accounts GitHub will surely die and Microsoft will lose what it bought: users. 19:51 < cubexyz> hmmm 19:53 < cubexyz> XRevan86, my experience is that free services tend to disappear 20:27 < cubexyz> according to statcounter: 20:27 < cubexyz> android: 41.04% 20:27 < cubexyz> windows: 36.3% 20:27 < cubexyz> iOS: 12.43% 20:27 < cubexyz> OS X: 5.89% 20:27 < cubexyz> Unknown: 2.28% 20:28 < cubexyz> Linux: 0.74% 20:28 < cubexyz> although take "unknown" with a huge grain of salt 20:29 < cubexyz> that's everything, all platforms 20:29 < cubexyz> on desktop... 20:29 < cubexyz> windows: 81.8% (still kind of encouraging, it was ridiculous high in 2000) 20:30 < cubexyz> OS X: 13.36% 20:30 < cubexyz> unknown: 2.01% 20:30 < cubexyz> Linux: 1.61% 20:30 < cubexyz> ChromeOS: 1.22% !!! 20:30 < cubexyz> FreeBSD: 0% (I guess they wanted to be funny) 20:32 < cubexyz> sure, my TV, my old PVR were Linux 20:36 < schestowitz> cubexyz: don't worry too much about these numbers 20:47 < cubexyz> we should write a bit more about alternatives to win10 though 20:47 < cubexyz> it seems to me a lot of people don't like it 20:50 < cubexyz> trueOS, vector linux, slackware... that sort of thing 21:28 < oiaohm> cubexyz: https://distrowatch.com/ really if you can believe the Distrowatch numbers the distributions people are interested in are reducing. 21:28 < oiaohm> cubexyz: also some of the smaller distributions and dieing off. 21:30 < oiaohm> cubexyz: some ways I would see it as quite important to cover flatpak and snap so that when people install a distribution that they can get current versions of libreoffice and the like. 21:41 < cubexyz> oiaohm, the problem is more fundamental...using doc and docx is just asking for trouble 21:44 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I have see newer odf from libreoffice on windows not render properly on old version of libreoffice that is in some distributions. 21:44 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so this is not just a doc/docx problem. 21:46 < cubexyz> I've heard WPS Office is pretty good 21:46 < cubexyz> haven't actually used it though 21:48 < cubexyz> ah, WPS office is a windows thing 21:48 < MinceR> cubexyz: android too 21:48 < cubexyz> oh wait, there's android and linux also 21:48 < oiaohm> cubexyz: there is a alpha Linux version of WPS office. 21:48 < cubexyz> ok 21:49 < oiaohm> cubexyz: and they do mean alpha as it can eat your documents. 21:50 < cubexyz> this just shows you how little business actually think about these things 21:50 < MinceR> cubexyz: they don't have to think about them 21:57 < cubexyz> their was a sort of golden age when ISPs mostly ran freebsd, and most web browsers were on some sort of Unix 21:58 < cubexyz> the Mosaic era I guess you could call it 21:59 < cubexyz> of course, IBM's EBCDIC wasn't any golden era either 22:00 < cubexyz> almost everybody is about lock-in 22:01 < cubexyz> FSF did work hard on setting up coreboot machines 22:04 < cubexyz> android doesn't use systemd right? 22:04 < MinceR> cubexyz: indeed 22:06 < cubexyz> as long as the bugs don't have bugs :) 22:06 < oiaohm> cubexyz: there is one in mosaic that is a bug that has a bug that then has a bug. All if you pushed everything the right way. 22:08 < cubexyz> really would you even want the IE source? blah 22:09 < cubexyz> some games went through 3 or even more software companies before being released 22:10 < cubexyz> the reality of it was/is really convoluted 22:11 < oiaohm> cubexyz: I cannot remember the game its a japanise one but it went through 35 companies before being released. 22:11 < oiaohm> cubexyz: but that is kind of the world record. 22:12 < cubexyz> I didn't think the mosaic code was that bad actually 22:13 < cubexyz> it's a motif and I'm fairly familiar with that 22:22 < cubexyz> seems like overkill 22:47 < cubexyz> the gold standard for QA is something you wrote for yourself :) 22:51 < cubexyz> then I went the slackware route, or rather I returned to it 22:52 < cubexyz> or I just hack on FC1 22:53 < cubexyz> does funtoo support 32-bit for us graybeards? :) 22:53 < MinceR> cubexyz: indeed 23:04 < cubexyz> wasn't there a way like: service messagebus restart ? 23:06 < cubexyz> ok on slack it would be: 23:06 < cubexyz> sudo /etc/rc.d/rc.messagebus restart 23:12 < cubexyz> MinceR, the saw guy rides a tiny tricycle? 23:13 < cubexyz> or a tiny bicycle rather 23:16 < cubexyz> https://i.redd.it/0gl8lg570oe01.png 00:23 < cubexyz> Scunthorpe problem: in 1996 web searches for Super Bowl XXX were censored 22:14 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15 -!- cubexyz [~cubeman@maxhost.org] has joined #techrights 06:46 < sebsebseb> razielle_tzu: schestowitz MinceR oiaohm cubexyz Woo hoo I will now be Linuxing again on this HP lap top, now got a work around for a nasty UEFI Bios Bug! 23:15 < cubexyz> of course Microsoft steals code... that's what they always do 23:17 < cubexyz> BIOS code? copied from CP/M BIOS 23:17 < cubexyz> QDOS bought from Paterson 23:18 < cubexyz> windows interface: copied from Xerox and/or Apple 23:18 < cubexyz> IE: bought or stolen from spyglass 23:18 < cubexyz> socket layer? Berkeley sockets 23:19 < cubexyz> Kerberos? they mangled MIT's 23:19 < cubexyz> on the fly disk compression? stolen from Stac Electronics 23:23 < cubexyz> Microsoft's main objective was tax every single computer that goes out the door for $50 or so...finally that's changed with chromebooks, barebooks and the like 23:25 < cubexyz> ASUS has a ton of barebone devices now 23:27 < cubexyz> there was actually a lot of white box PCs in the 1980s that assemblers were selling, and some savvy people assembled their own 23:51 < cubexyz> IBM actually made a pretty open computer with the 5150 23:51 < cubexyz> they published the specs for the bus and BIOS 23:54 < cubexyz> so Columbia Data Products cloned the 5150... 00:30 < cubexyz> some of the oddball PCs had the full sized DIN keyboard connector in the front 00:47 < cubexyz> oh and CIFS/SMB was mutated as well 00:48 < cubexyz> an IBM technology originally 01:00 < cubexyz> why did they always put the ps/2 connector in the back of the computer? I always hated that 01:11 < oiaohm> cubexyz: A few computers tried ps/2 connector in front. 01:13 < oiaohm> cubexyz: one I can remember that has ps2 connector in front was the amstrad lemons that were shipped into Australia. 01:15 < cubexyz> the Amstrad mega PC had the 9-pin joystick connectors in the front 01:16 < oiaohm> cubexyz: one of the 2 absolute lemons made by Amstrad has ps2 ports on front. 01:16 < cubexyz> ok, I'm not remember the model you're talking about 01:16 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the lemons had a 20Meg harddrive pretending to be a 30meg hardrive to compression. 01:19 < cubexyz> I rmember the PC 1640, but it didn't have the connectors in the front 01:22 < oiaohm> cubexyz: http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/amstrad/PC4386SX/IMG_3209.JPG that not the exact model that was dud but is one of the replacements to the dud model. 01:22 < oiaohm> cubexyz: yes keyboard and serial in front. 01:22 < oiaohm> cubexyz: the dud had PS2 in front. 01:22 < cubexyz> looks like a full sized DIN though 01:22 < cubexyz> hard to tell 01:23 < cubexyz> ah i see 01:23 < cubexyz> Amstrad seems to like covering up the ports 01:25 < oiaohm> cubexyz: notice the high voltage warning. 01:26 < oiaohm> cubexyz: lets put that on the part you are likely to lose. Amstrads were not exactly the bright sparks in design. 01:26 < cubexyz> high voltage where? 01:26 < oiaohm> cubexyz: http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/amstrad/PC4386SX/IMG_3209.JPG << in this picture take note where the black high voltage sticker is. 01:27 < cubexyz> no, I mean where is the high voltage coming from? 01:28 < cubexyz> not the ps/2 connector or serial port... 01:29 < oiaohm> cubexyz: to get at the high voltage you have to open up a lot more of the case. 01:31 < oiaohm> cubexyz: What did you attempt to apply common sense to Amstrad sticker placement. Best was finding the do not open sticker in an Amstrad inside the power supply. That is a little late to be told do not open. 01:33 < oiaohm> cubexyz: law might say stickers have to be include but if the law does not say sane placement you will get one party that will do the insane. 01:37 < cubexyz> when did the IBM PS/2s come out... trying to remember now 01:37 < cubexyz> oh yeah, 1987 01:37 < cubexyz> remember Microchannel? :) 01:38 < cubexyz> I don't even know why they bothered making the keyboard connector smaller 01:56 < oiaohm> cubexyz: ps2 was keyboard and mouse in one. This allowed on port out back to keyboard and mouse connected to keyboard. 01:56 < oiaohm> cubexyz: on port/one port. 01:57 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so ps2 port kind of made sense. 01:59 < cubexyz> I'm sure IBM thought so :) 02:00 < oiaohm> cubexyz: we see the same thing with USB keyboards with integrated hubs today. 02:01 < oiaohm> cubexyz: so its not that the idea was exactly bad. 08:38 < cubexyz> gitlab or bit bucket then 08:39 < cubexyz> I barely ever used github though 08:39 < cubexyz> it doesn't, no one actually trusts M$ 08:39 < cubexyz> no one wants a stealth TOS 08:49 < cubexyz> just be sure you get UEFI with CSM 08:49 < cubexyz> if you really must use UEFI 08:49 < cubexyz> check before you buy :) 08:55 < cubexyz> they haven't infected the whole PC market: chromebooks/boxes, lemote, barebone systems, beeboxes 08:55 < cubexyz> plus some other ones I'm not remembering 08:55 < SopaXorzTaker> cubexyz, well, they had this position when most of those lawsuits happened 08:58 < cubexyz> well, it was really IBM and Intel that started the PC hardware thing 08:58 < cubexyz> M$ has tried to control it of course